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New player and low level experience

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Slaegan13
Posts: 7

New player and low level experience

Post#1 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:28 am

Hard to bring friends into this game with the horrible balance of things in the lower ranks of the game. New player experience is very bad especially in SC's. I'm sure this has been said many times is anything being done about it?

Healers don't die without many players attacking them.
you can be knocked back and knocked down in sequence.
some classes can heal and dps better then a straight dps class can???????
I don't have numbers to back this but I would def. say order feels way stronger healing and dmg wise.
the gearing system unless you have played before is not intuitive unless you read everything which no new player does.
understanding the renown/mastery/oRVR has most new players lost in the sauce.

This is all from my friends who don't have rr80+ characters.

I have to constantly remind myself and friends that 1-39.99 is the trade for the good times after you hit 40. Super rough new player/beginner experience.

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Rotgut
Posts: 123

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#2 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:12 am

I think its less about balance and more about a lack of low lvl guides to help new players out.

"Healers don't die without many players attacking them." - Yes, Detaunt is a thing in this game. You're not supposed to solo kill healers unless specifically built for that, but good news is you don't have to in t1, cuz they don't have the AP sustain. If a T4 BiS Choppa/Mara/WE solo jumps my RP in a SC, i'll just detaunt him and keep healing my team. If you jump a low lvl RP he will have to heal himself, or start kiting, and eventually he will run out of AP - either way, the moment u jump on him he stops healing his team, so you effectively "kill" him on contact.

"you can be knocked back and knocked down in sequence" - Yes there are two types of Immunities, one for Knock Down and one for Knock Back (which staggers also trigger). Its an essential part of the game, which sadly the Vanilla UI doesn't clearly show. Set up your Buffhead Addon so you can easily see yours (and everyone elses) immunities above their heads at a glance, and use that in your decision making process. "Baiting immunities" is a thing, only committing for kills when u can Punt/KD their tanks away is a thing, a lot of decision making comes from having a proper UI. Shame that the vanilla version doesn't help with that.

"some classes can heal and dps better then a straight dps class can?" - Nah, not really. Maybe in T1 a Shamman/AM that knows what he is doing and is in a pug SC can pump a lot of fluff dmg, but thats it. Or you where playing the Talabec Dam SC and some healer exploded a bunch of ppl with the "Flag", that will count as his dmg.

"I don't have numbers to back this but I would def. say order feels way stronger healing and dmg wise." - Just skill issue man, difference between factions doesn't really start showing till later in the game.

"the gearing system unless you have played before is not intuitive unless you read everything which no new player does." - That is part of the "skill" in a MMO and uh yeah, its just the process man. Its a super easy grind tho, just buy the RvR sets from the vendors in IC. There is also a bunch of green items on sale there too for the non set pieces. Thats it. Talisman slotting requires a lil bit of more knowledge, and i can tell you what it is right **** now: WS>Str/Agi for physical dmg classes, stack Int on casters, and Wounds > Willpower for Healers.

"understanding the renown/mastery/oRVR has most new players lost in the sauce" - Again, part of the process of gitting gud in a MMO. At the lower levels, Stats > % based Avoidance. There is a lot of difference between 0 Futile Strikes and 3 Futile Strikes, but not a lot between 0 and 1. Its just math. Untill you have enough Renown to get meaningful % reduction/increase on the **** on you want, just go for stats.

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Frankie
Posts: 48

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#3 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:47 am

Bad news, between rr40 and 60ish, you are still small fish in a sea of sharks. Rotgut summed things up quite nicely and in details. You HAVE to learn to play the game inside and out, nothing is handed to you easily unless you're savants (which isn't the case). Those who roll over you know what they're doing, that's why it's so effective. Get in an active guild (or stick to the default, but be part of one), ask for help and advice, you'll get it.

Either you break or things eventually will start to click.
Moirran, Zealot RR40+
Albin, Blackguard <40


Ferenz, Witch Hunter RR40+
Gottlob, Warrior Priest <40

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 991

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#4 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:07 pm

You need to get into an active guild for support.

I started solo and slogged through to having multiple 80s and plenty of gold/mats/crafting but it took years.

I was fine with that process because I’ve loved this game and warhammer generally since 2008.

If you are not that fanatical about the game, then yes, this is a very tough place for new players, especially compared to modern gaming generally.

Having a good guild flattens that curve exponentially.

Also worth point out, destro has it better in T4 once you get there. Destro has more active organized warband and guild scene.

Also, game is not forgiving, sometimes even with good grp and gear a better or more numerous opponent will mop the floor with you and you will have a bad day.

If you go by population, like 99% if of the people that ever played this hot mess of a game quit pretty soon after starting. This is a private server with 600 ppl online for a reason.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/80) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

bw10
Posts: 267

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#5 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:52 pm

This was already mentioned, but for the majority of new players the only way not to burn out quickly would be to join a serious guild asap and ask for mentoring

Rapzel
Posts: 394

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#6 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:34 pm

The new player experience have never been as bad as it is now. Mid tier scs are full of bots and nothing is happening there. The balance in mid tier SC is even more bonkers than it is in T4, since WL is the FotM I dont want to know what its like for new players as they die to random AoE when they are 60 ft away from a WL.
The broken mess we had before the ability rework at least allowed for lowbies to improve before they died to a single target time stamp, now its just an AoE meatgrind.

shoelessHN
Posts: 195

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#7 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:42 pm

Rapzel wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:34 pm The new player experience have never been as bad as it is now. Mid tier scs are full of bots and nothing is happening there. The balance in mid tier SC is even more bonkers than it is in T4, since WL is the FotM I dont want to know what its like for new players as they die to random AoE when they are 60 ft away from a WL.
The broken mess we had before the ability rework at least allowed for lowbies to improve before they died to a single target time stamp, now its just an AoE meatgrind.
Lol bots in mid-tier? Wtf are you talking about?

Rapzel
Posts: 394

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#8 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:00 pm

shoelessHN wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:42 pm
Rapzel wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:34 pm The new player experience have never been as bad as it is now. Mid tier scs are full of bots and nothing is happening there. The balance in mid tier SC is even more bonkers than it is in T4, since WL is the FotM I dont want to know what its like for new players as they die to random AoE when they are 60 ft away from a WL.
The broken mess we had before the ability rework at least allowed for lowbies to improve before they died to a single target time stamp, now its just an AoE meatgrind.
Lol bots in mid-tier? Wtf are you talking about?
Yes there are a large amount of bots in mid tier, that run from flag to flag and AoE spam continue to next BO. Howling gorge weekend SC was hilarious watching them run mid, stay there for about 30 secs spam AoE, continue to a locked enemy BO, stand there for 30 secs spam AoE until they continued to the last BO. All that while 4 of their team was trying to defend their last flag.

I've been here since 2016, I know that there have been people botting but they have been very few, this is a new problem that's increased during the last year.

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Slaegan13
Posts: 7

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#9 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:10 pm

So the response I got was "here is how it is" essentially, which I'm fully aware of as I stated. The question was are they trying to change how bad it is. A novel on how bad it is was not necessary.
If most of the players on this forum are stating this or that sucks (most the time from the destruction side) I would say maybe that warrants an investigation not an explanation or an excuse to make it sound like "well this is how it is"
People want to see this game succeed and love the game, if it cannot bring in new players without them being "mentored" its going to continue to struggle and hemorrhage the new players who have a "skill issue" as it was put, which would be obvious as they are learning the game.
I watched a Twitch streamer get to rank 24 before he even knew there was an armory tab in the Tomb for instance. I explained a lot to him about many aspects of this game he had no idea. Imagine how many have gone so long without knowing. That is not good.

The forum seems it is also not helpful. Ask a question and you get a "get gud kid" response.

I'm not sure I will pass that on to the new guys wanting to play. Think of how ridiculous this will sound to a new player that knows nothing about this game at all.

1. Get in to a top guild asap
2. Get new guild to "mentor" you.
3. Setup addons for endgame setup at low lvl
4. Don't go to forum for questions/answers or you'll get elitist response "get gud" in denial of bad game tuning/mechanics/interface.

Help me understand why everyone says they "love" this game but don't push for improvement in it?

Rotgut
Posts: 123

Re: New player and low level experience

Post#10 » Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:04 pm

Slaegan13 wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:10 pm 1. Get in to a top guild asap
2. Get new guild to "mentor" you.
3. Setup addons for endgame setup at low lvl
4. Don't go to forum for questions/answers or you'll get elitist response "get gud" in denial of bad game tuning/mechanics/interface.

Help me understand why everyone says they "love" this game but don't push for improvement in it?
It wasn't intended as an aggressive post towards you mate, and i fully agree there is lots this game could improve on.

1 and 2 - The "find a guild" tip is just a result of how balance works in this game. Its a team game, with lots of synergy and big dmg debuffs in the form of Guard, Detaunt, Heal Debuffs, Challenge, Bellows. Getting kills is more about timings and creating your windows than having gear and nailing a rotation, and you need multiple classes in sync to do that, so you will have a better time playing with a regular group of people. And also, most of the complaints you raised were also due to not considering how balance revolves around teams, but it is a very fair first impression to have, so not attacking you here. Honestly, the game doesn't turn into bullshit till you reach a level where you know what you are doing, AND is fighting ppl that do so too - then you'll run into stuff that have no counter-plays. But at least you chose the right faction for that.

3 - The addon part does suck. A lot of the engaging and fun decision making you'll have to make simply doesn't show in the Vanilla UI. I can send you an Addon Pack if you want, just send me a PM.

4 - Nah mate i didn't just tell you to git gud, i tried explaining what i could from the points you made. Give me more specific questions than "the enemy just seem better" and you'll get better answers. But again, sorry if it seemed aggressive. You can either get excited that the game can be more complex than what your first impression told you, or you can decide that its not a type of game you enjoy and that is ok too.

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