Should tanks have the same DPS offspec option as healers?

[Culexus]

The “DPS tanks are too fragile” thread has been locked for some reason, so I thought I'd make a new thread to explore this idea.

Currently, besides many trying to make it work, DPS tank is not a thing. A DPS tank is just a crappy tank. The question is, should it be a thing?

With the healer balance patch, all healers now have a group-viable DPS spec that allows them to abandon their role as healers in a group and count as DPS when queuing for scenarios. Tanks on the other hand must always fulfil their role as a tank, with no option of playing a true offspec being available to them.

There was a discussion on Discord a while back about how this could be made to work, as for a tank to be a true DPS it would have to lose the abilities that make it a tank in the first place. They would, however, just as healers, still need to retain their identity as a tank offspec. This is where FO fails as a tactic, as not only does it not give enough of a damage bonus for a true DPS spec, but the tradeoff of basically being reduced to medium armour on a class without the survivability tools of DPS or healers, always makes it unviable. Compare this to healers that gain 25% damage while keeping 80% of their healing numbers as well as rez, cleanse, etc., they’re just not comparable.

The idea was floated that a reworked FO could give the same 25% damage as healers, but instead of the 33% armour reduction, they lose the ability to guard, challenge, and punt. This would then enable tanks to truly spec for damage as they can no longer fulfill their duties as a tank. It allows them to count as DPS for scenarios, while still keeping some of their toughness in the same way healers keep their kit while filling a DPS slot.

This of course immediately raises the balance question "why would you ever take a normal DPS when you could take a DPS in heavy armour?” Well, the same question could be asked for DPS healers “Why would you take a normal DPS when you can take a DPS that can heal, cleanse, and rez?” The answer to the former will be the same as the latter; they’re balanced in a way that they’re an option, but not an auto-include, as there are trade-offs to consider when putting a group together.

Doing this also raises the concern that it'll become harder to find tanks, as many players will switch to DPS. However, when I raised this in the Discord discussion, it was rightly pointed out to me that players who want to play a DPS tank are going to do it anyway. At least this way they're not screwing over the rest of their team when they do it.

Now, my personal view of class balance is that each class should play out the role of its archetype, with offspecs being a hybrid way of playing that archetype rather than a fully different role. However, as we’ve seen from the healer patches, that ship has sailed. So with the healer rework allowing healers to switch roles, should tanks join them?

***I know asking this on this forum is probably pointless, but please keep any discussion to group play and wider server health. Yes, this would be great for tanks in solo roam, just as it has been for DPS healers, but let's try not to derail this thread into a solo balance discussion. There’s a 30+ page Witch Elf thread for that***

[Rille]

I wouldnt mind if tanks could go DPS, however I would also be happy if they could just get back some of the dmg they have lost.

Example: all channels beind reduced in DMG aswell as all proccs being heavely affected by them no longer stacking with dmg increasers such as taunt, greatweapon mastery etc. that was a flat 40% dmg loss on things like skull thumper, loudmouth, PE, EA, and more

[galaxgal]

I'd rather have 2H tanks fulfill a clear-cut role that still features Taunt and Guard and for all armor-reducing talents and setbonuses to be replaced with something else

[noronn]

This of course immediately raises the balance question "why would you ever take a normal DPS when you could take a DPS in heavy armour?” Well, the same question could be asked for DPS healers “Why would you take a normal DPS when you can take a DPS that can heal, cleanse, and rez?” The answer to the former will be the same as the latter; they’re balanced in a way that they’re an option, but not an auto-include, as there are trade-offs to consider when putting a group together.

Well hate to break it to you but in small scale dps healers ARE already an auto include in every group imaginable because they are so overtuned.

[Starx]

Losing guard challenge and punt for a 25% damage increase? I dont even think it would be worth a 50% damage increase. Guard and challenge are like top 5 most powerful non morale abilities in the game and punt is the only real counter for guard.

DPS healers are even worse than dps tanks are atm. DPS tanks at least retain virtually everything that makes a tank a tank, while dps healers are at best a true hybrid class that are difficult or very niche to play around, not something that is easily plug and play.

Im all for changing focused offense, its a terrible tactic and the downside is really bad. But I really dont see anything wrong atm with 2h offensively specced tanks, they blow snb in almost every case out of the water in smaller scale content if they have the gear to cover stats they need.