[Split] Marauder discussion

[Jail]

I have not reached the Tier 2 yet, but I assume that the marauder is a very good class right now. I want to make one quick comment about this, remember that the game is designed to rank 40. The game is not designed to be balanced when you have reached rank 26.

- SFG

[foof]

I said a monstro marauder will switch stances to stave off the damage of the slayer on the push, which is when the most burst comes. Clearly, no marauder would stay in one stance. In our fight with TFC, we farmed the choppa, the marauder was a much, much harder kill, because like I said, monstro ignores armor pen. Also, I'm playing a SW, just because I happen to play a slayer doesn't mean I play it all the time. Actually, last time I even took the slayer out was about a week ago for 1 scenario.

Like I said, I know what I'm talking about, now it's coming down to "blah blah blah, you don't know anything, and here's no proof."

If a Marauder is a Monstro, he has terrible debuffs and damage and is really only acting like a damage sponge. Target someone else until he switches so he can actually do something besides absorb damage, then CC and burst.

You can't argue about Marauders without understanding the fundamentals of the mechanic, which you should because you clearly play a SW.

Also, the Marauder has way less damage than the Choppa. I don't see why you think a class shouldn't have greater survivability when it has worse DPS, when its a DPS archetype.

And these comments "I know what I am talking about, blah blah", are just showing how arrogant you are acting. Nearly everyone on this board is former WAR player, most of us have a general understanding of what we are talking about. You are not a special case. Just repeating "I know what I'm talking about", without offering compelling arguments is yet another logical fallacy you are once again making.

I'm fine with a DPS like the marauder having more survivability than a slayer or choppa but imo they have just as much damage (we can argue about burst, I say burst can come from any point, not just the initial attack) as a choppa with more survivability. Even if they don't slightly nerf the marauder's damage, decrease their utility (for example making the disarm a pre-req through savagery or Monstro (since it gets used less than the other two)).

I'm not being arrogant, I'm just saying what I can see. I play a marauder on destro on live and I'm hard pressed to name a class I couldn't kill.

I don't think you are arrogant, but I'm just saying the whole "I know what I'm talking about line" makes it seem so. I fully understand that you believe what you are saying, and are passionate about it. I don't want to try and discredit your arguments based on the way that you make them, but statements that are just a waste of time.

Marauders do not have as much damage, sustained or burst, as Slayers or Choppas. If you so want me to, I will go and write a nice long post for you, explaining this. This is not my opinion. This is fact, based on math. It's always been that way, and the math has been done years ago. Wish I could find those old posts, but I can redo it, if you'd like. Just let me know.

Anyway, I'm not opposed to a slight nerf like the disarm pre-req. That seems fair to me.

[bloodi]

Read what I write. I am making sound arguments, not based on logical fallacies. If you would like to point out my fallacious logic, do so.

All you do is move the goalposts, you decided by yourself that the only discussion allowed here is Marauder burst vs WL.

How about that?

[Ungrin]

Oh come on. Now your argument has devolved into "Mara burst is better because than can pull people more easily". Do you not understand how silly you sound?

Fetch sucks, and TE is way better. These should have always been directly mirrored in my personal opinion, but it has absolutely no relevancy to a burst damage discussion. You clearly know that "paper (or in reality, real)", burst from the WL is greater than the Marauder, even after the Marauder received a variety of significant buffs throughout the history of WAR.

Once again, I am most definitely championing buffing WL's for parity.

It's just my opinion on the subject. I've fought on both sides, destro and order. I'll admit that I like order more, just because I like playing an archer class without relying on a pet for certain abilities (like the SH) but I still playing a viking with crab claw for an arm. Regardless, I'm just saying what I've seen after playing the game straight through from launch till death for 5 years.

Marauders went from being the worst dps to by far the best. Every group ran 1-2 marauders depending on how much of a "power player group" they were. Like I said, most real world scenarios ended up how I talked about it.

Destro group pulls order group's mDPS / rDPS / AM / RP and kills it before it reaches the ground. Destro group has a significant advantage now with 6v5 fight.

[Ungrin]

Marauder's Cookie cutter build:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... 7:;0:0:0:0:

Wrong spec, wrong tactics.

Go ahead and post your own and explain why I am wrong. I put about 10 minutes into that post, I assume you can spend the same amount to argue against it.

[Sera]

Marauders are a bit overbuffed with tools, it's an awesome class, that still takes skills to be good at it.
At this level the class is kind of OP, cause the curernt amount of stats and debuff amounts, Ie, they can remove all armor from a clothie and almost all armor from a medium armored class and they can take away 20-25% of your full Health. In terms of DPS their wounds debuff pretty much does 1400-1500 damage if the target wasn't debuffed already. This is pretty OP from a melee class at this point.
In T4 their damage will be relatively low, compared to other melee DPS, their debuffs will be still very strong, but not as much as they are now.

Conclusion is I'd be very careful to touch marauders, or in fact any class. And if I was to nerf, or boost any skills, or stats on a class, I'd do it by very small increments, and give it time to test it.
No reason to nerf classes anyway, if there is no game-breaking stuff, rather just buff the ones underpowered.

[Ungrin]

I don't think you are arrogant, but I'm just saying the whole "I know what I'm talking about line" makes it seem so. I fully understand that you believe what you are saying, and are passionate about it. I don't want to try and discredit your arguments based on the way that you make them, but statements that are just a waste of time.

Marauders do not have as much damage, sustained or burst, as Slayers or Choppas. If you so want me to, I will go and write a nice long post for you, explaining this. This is not my opinion. This is fact, based on math. It's always been that way, and the math has been done years ago. Wish I could find those old posts, but I can redo it, if you'd like. Just let me know.

Anyway, I'm not opposed to a slight nerf like the disarm pre-req. That seems fair to me.

Whether or not people see me as arrogant is fine with me. I'd rather find the truth and talk about it than to just be right. I don't care about being right or wrong. If I'm wrong then at least I know the truth is now out and everyone knows it. I'm stating what I see.

Of course, if you can post why marauder is worse DPS than slayer / choppa I'd be more than happy to see it.

The only problem I see with my suggestion was of course, things like Nerfed Buttons. If we have things like Nerfed Buttons, it will only make classes like Marauder take no skill to play.

It will take away from the person seeing the parry, switching stances, hitting their disarm and maybe a debuff, and going back to their rotation or other mutation. It would just be another check they put in their NB rotation.

[foof]

Marauder's Cookie cutter build:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... 7:;0:0:0:0:

Wrong spec, wrong tactics.

Yea, having a 25% heal debuff is not going to work in any kind of organized end game environment. That is actually a spec I don't think I've ever seen anyone take.

There are three basic Marauder specs.

Sav/Brut: You go up to deadly clutch and you most definitely use it if you ever want to kill anything. You go up to Mutated Aggressor in Brut. Do what you want with the rest of your points (obviously taking the abilities and good tactics like GI). This is the most aggressive Mara spec.

Sav/Monstro: Go up to deadly clutch, go up to knockdown in Monstro. Put the rest of your points where you want. The most defensive Mara spec.

Brut/Monstro: Go up to Mutated Aggressor, go up to Knockdown. Put the rest of your points where you want, this is the "I'd rather have a knockdown than an armor/heal debuff spec", and while its probably the weakest spec for group play, its alright for solo/ganking as you have a realible knockdown + burst damage.

[Jail]

Marauder's Cookie cutter build:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... 7:;0:0:0:0:

Wrong spec, wrong tactics.

Go ahead and post your own and explain why I am wrong. I put about 10 minutes into that post, I assume you can spend the same amount to argue against it.

http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=mar ... :5194:5204:

[foof]

Read what I write. I am making sound arguments, not based on logical fallacies. If you would like to point out my fallacious logic, do so.

All you do is move the goalposts, you decided by yourself that the only discussion allowed here is Marauder burst vs WL.

How about that?

Person A makes a statement.

Person B (me) refutes that statement.

Person A, instead of arguing my rebuttal, argues a position, I never took.

Just a simple strawman. I didn't say any other discussion couldn't happen. I said if your going to argue, at least argue the points being made.

For instance, if I now say, "Well Marauders are the only MDPS class that has to use a tactic slot to get a 50% incoming heal debuff (which is technically true because WLs don't even have one)" in response to your post. I'm making a strawman argument. It is a factual statement, but it has nothing to do with what you are posting.