[Shaman/AM] Stacks Converter/Wiper

[riddleout]

A new core skill that directly effects the class specific mechanic (Mork/Gork & Force/Tranquility) upon using the skill, all built up mechanic points would be switched over immediately to the other end of the spectrum. I.E. 5 Gork points become 5 Mork points, and vice versa.

Possible names: Mork & Gork's Deal/ Power Struggle.

The skill should also have a cooldown of 1-2 min. and a 1-2 sec. cast time.
*Cooldown and cast time could be increased or decreased and/or an AP cost added for balance reasons.

If you play a dedicated dps or healer for either of these classes, in order to get any use out of these mechanic points you find yourself spamming the cheapest DOT/HOT you have available to quickly build back up to your desired side. and if you're starting from one end and want to cast your way to the other that means you need to cast 10 heal or damage spells only. Currently it's beneficial for the healers to largely ignore the mechanic.

This would bring some much needed fluidity to both classes and allow for the mechanic to be put to use and enjoyed more often.
Most importantly it would give a measurably increased healing or damage output that can be easily be adjusted.

[dansari]

Opening for discussion. I want to hear the AM/sham perspective on this. There's a caveat though: peter and I are still working with the devs to understand if this would be a priority because (and I quote) "the creation of new abilities is cancer." That may change with client control, but just know this wouldn't be something they could implement quickly. I know a lot of people are frustrated with sham/AM since .ab ex removal, hence this discussion.

My opinion: it doesn't need a 1min cooldown. 1min cooldowns, in my mind, should largely be reduced to present the potential for more fluid reactions to changes in fights, but that's for another discussion. So, I think having something on a ~10s cooldown that wipes your stacks OR something on a ~20s cooldown that converts your stacks is more reasonable, but I am but a man.

Closed June 7

[Ramasee]

I agree that Archmages and Shamans need a better method to dump mechanic, or swap mechanic. If creation of new abilities is cancer, what about modification of 2 (or 3) abilities to create/consume 5 stacks of balance/gork and mork on cast.

Could even make it slot a tactic in order to function this way using the tactics: Empowered Lores (AM) and Burst of Waaagh! (Shaman) since those tactics already are aimed at creating more stacks.

[Tesq]

about this proposal i dont get why you want a skill fixing meccanic when you can just make meccanic work in first place.

-put back old/original meccanic and fix it as follow

-every skill assign 2-1 / 1-2 points instead than 1-0/ 0-1
-points get "consumed" as originaly intended instead scale back of one.
-20% cast time reduction x points spent or 20% power increase x points spent
-10/20% ap reduction x point spents (depend from internal test)
-2/3% striketrought x points spent (aka max 10 or 15%)

-2 hot give you 4 point so ista cast offensive skill or more powerfull lifetap. (so from 4-2 you end 0-2)
-2 dot give you 4 point and so 0.5 cast group heal or more powerfull hot/channeling (so from 2-4 you end 2-0)
-etc
-ap drain give 1-1


you should seriusly take in consideration what i have wrote, i previously wrote it but the consensus at that time was that meccanic was fine, if it is not could you please give a go at this?

-this is FAST to implement AND WORK ALL SERVERSIDE not client wise
-it force meccanic to be played hybrid
.it is not coutnerproductive for full heal or dps classes (since cast time /ap reduction ) and allow class to be played hybrid aswell

@ramase no way for a tactic, they alredy have few if none avaible open slot for it.

[Darosh]

Even tho' I do agree with the need for such a toggle, what'd be the point of implementing it with the current iteration of the class mechanic?

It'd be a ducttape for a ducttape of the ducttape. Iirc, 5stacks still break the mechanic; the current iteration is - at best - turning things into one great, sluggish mess as it is inconsistently applied~ if at all.

Both classes are in dire need of luv and the raw sketch as provided by OP is workable, but imo it'd be hardly worth the time trying to 'fix' this mechanic.
Rework, yeah, trying to fix/expand it...meh (why'd you code something you'll invetiably code anew, unless of course there is a real emergency).

Some things and discussions should be postponed until client control is a thing and the devs are ready to tackle these things properly.

[dansari]

Fair point

[Foomy44]

It would be very helpful for this discussion if we clarified how the mechanic is supposed to function ideally on this server before implementing this. I assumed after the .ab exmode removal the mechanic was in a broken place, it's "insta casts" require you to stand still for the full GCD so no real benefit from that, and I don't believe any instant spells (or any kind) are being boosted when they consume a point. I'd much rather see a working mechanic than a fix that might imply devs have given up on trying to make the mechanic worthwhile to use.

This ability would also be a huge change to the mechanic/class's "hybrid" role, if this was implemented it would basically throw out any pretense the mechanic is supposed to be used for giving these classes a hybrid role and instead it would just become fuel to power their main role which is kinda the opposite of how it's been advertised this last decade. Not a deal breaker per say but would be a pretty drastic shift in how this class is designed to interact with it's mechanic. I always liked the hybrid aspect and have really been hoping the mechanic would get fixed/buffed to bring that part of the class back into viability.

However if nothing else is going to change anytime soon then sure I'll take this ability, better than nothing and dps shamans need all the love they can get.

[Ugle]

The hybrid role as it was on live was useless for anything but solo/duo. So lets throw that failed class mechanic into the toilet or tweak it along the line of the ab.ex changes albeit at a less OP level. I don't think the latter is possible.

[live4treasure]

I'm speaking from a dps am main point of view, just to make this clear.

I really, really like this idea. And that is also my issue with it. I like it a little too much. From a dps AM point of view, this means that you can apply all your dots and then flip all those stacks for 4-5 quick one second cast life taps that can be casted on the move. If this ability was to be implemented, as a flip of casting mechanic, it should essentially be treated as either a damage or a healing boost cooldown, because it straight up lets you halve the casting speed and ap cost of your heals or the same with your damage spells. It's essentially a mechanic that facilitates burst damage or healing. This is the reason why I agree with the OPs initial estimate of a 1 minute cooldown. It would be unbalanced if it was anything less.

On the plus side, I disagree with the whining about ab ex from the other posters here because it was very clearly overperforming in the iteration it was in earlier. I like the idea of this "band aid" because it gives you a choice and requires proper set up. In the 1 gcd it takes to cast this, a lot of things could happen for both a healer and a dps, especially when we're talking about the squishiest healer class in the game. It's a risky play that wastes your time right now for a huge benefit later. I guess I like that idea.

If it were in the shape of a mechanic point wipe as proposed by Dansari earlier, then it becomes much less interesting in a decision making way and you may often not have time to reap the benefits of wiping your mechanics. I would suggest that the ability is useable outside of gcd if this iteration is adopted, so that it simply becomes a part of the AM kit, rather than an ability that has no immediate use and requires you to stop doing what you were meant to be doing (aka healing to cast damage spells that will likely be disrupted, or damaging to cast heals) in order to gain some benefit. In this iteration, it is more useful for dps AM, which can make use of both sides of the mechanic. Generally wouldn't recommend it. Perhaps another way to make it more accessible, perhaps even a more interesting way, is consuming those stacks for an effect. For example, an instant cast heal if it consumes tranquility, growing with each stack, or an instant cast damage spell that hits for more depending on the amount of force stacks consumed. Then it would both have an immediate effect and allow you to decide what you want to do with your mechanic from then on.

[Miszczu5647]

Problem with OP proposal is that it don't answer for what purposes shaman should use this skill. And second: if this change could move shaman into position that he can be desired in group.
Healer always need group. Question is if group need shaman as a healer. DPS shaman can solo ofc and switching immediately to stronger heal could be beneficial for this playstyle.
Back to the first question - purposes. When you are a healer you will have full Gork Waaagh. And you can use it for Mork skill - from my experience mainly for You Got Nuthin! (5 sec silence). Now shaman healer use "switch button" and have 5 Mork Waaagh. With this he can insta res someone (i am full aware that it is bugged currently). As a dps shaman with full Mork he can switch to have better heal (useful in solo mode) or insta silence.
Switching, as a healer, for more dps (25%) won't have meaningful impact as your base dmg is very low. Same as dps for more heal (plus dps shaman will have divine fury sloted). But definitely I would test it with I'll Take That.
So all above show that "switching button" could improve a little what shaman can do now. Will it elevate shaman to be considered for a group? Healer - maybe (shaman can be quite good healer in small roaming fights). As dps - don't see any chances.

But... any discussion that could bring us closer to hybrid shaman is needed.