[Implementation Feedback] Morale Gain

[Keinhoran]

Thank you Natherul for reading at least the post

[Keinhoran]

So i suppose now that you know that destruction has an upper hand on the morale thingie a balance will take place?

[dontcomplainx]

Chosen : Destined For Victory = 200 points of Morale any time you block an attack, can not trigger more than one every 3 seconds


BO : Youz see me blok' dat' = Whenever you Block an attack you gain 4 percentage points worth of morale, will not trigger more than once every 3 seconds

Both tanks can build morals way faster than the rest of the order tanks, now try imagine if they use gear with moral gain

[spikespiegel84]

Morale gain is useless if using destined for victory.
For the rest, I will trade chosen for kotbs immediately, without blinking. The kotbs is simply, overall, totally better.
Except the look. They look like armored clowns.

[Haojin]

Ok, so from what ive seen in the lakes now is... Order has no tools to counter the morale drain/dump of the destro. 1 Marauder is enough to drain AP and to burst our morale back to 0 in like 3 aoe hits. Yes order have better m2/m3 burst morale but we cant seem to get even to morale 1 when there is 1 marauder in the warband.. this is clearly working as intened... phalanx (ab)using this..
there`s been said we have a `window` to win a fight, can tell there is none
no salt just observation

Another learn to play issue. You guys seriously forcing me to show how order warbands set their warbands and how they should play when fighting. And the perfectness of having both order/destro warband is priceless. We're testing almost every class in game and we know how these abuse(!)s working in what condition.

For perfect [morale drain] you need at least 2 marauder [ specced and geared properly] for you warband. And having at least 2 marauders in warband means you gonna lose **** loads of dps output. And about AP Drain, it's so overrated cause of the RP's MRoF + AP Aura of Knight.

The only unique class has got AoE Dps M2 + Morale Tactic is BW.
The only unique class has aoe morale drain is Marauder.

Countering marauder is possible and simple if you play properly. Everything you need is there:

http://www.ror.builders
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#

I was playing the game from 2008-2013 and i was always a warband leader [ still actually ]. I'm saying that cause i think i got that "experience" about faction balances. I will keep it short:


About the proposal:

1) Revert morale gain mechanics back to the way they where on live

-I agree about morale gain same as on live.

2) Across the board nerf of all morale gain tactics to account for the gimped morale gain rate

-I totally disagree with that. Here's the reason:

When you fighting on open field, most of the fights ends in 30-40 seconds. That means everyone relying on "early morales" which destro lacks.

Offensive M2 of Order: KotBS [Raze] [ 300 damage ]+ IB [Raze] [ 300 damage ] + SM [Raze] [ 300 damage ]+ SW [1200 damage] + BW [MT] [1200 damage] + WH [1200 damage] = 6

That means for order warband:

8 Tanks= 2400 damage
at least 4 BW [MT] = 4800 damage
maybe 1 SW: 1200 damage

8400 damage.

Offensive M2 of Destruction: CH [Raze] [MT] [ 300 damage ]+ BO [Defaening Beilow] [MT] [1200 damage] + BG [Raze] [ 300 damage ]+ Mara [1200 damage] + WE [1200 damage] = 5 , and BO needs to hit M3.

That means for destruction warband:

4 Chosens [MT] = 1200 damage
4 BOs [MT] = 4800 damage , Need M3.
2 Marauders= 2400 damage [ Not using 2 marauders most of the times in warband, you're losing dps pressure a lot ]

8400 damage. If BO's using [Raze] total damage will be:

8 Tanks= 2400 damage
2 Marauders= 2400 damage

4800 damage.

The only way for morale dump for destro based around tanks and thats why they need morale tactics.

About the countering the early morale dumps from order is: Marauders.

Currently I lean towards reducing the effectiveness of morale pump and morale drain abilities and tactics as appropriate to fit. There's only so many times you can see Immaculate Defense being cycled on cooldown before you feel there's a problem.

If this happens, there is no way to counter order early morale dumps which will break the balance around factions.

[MT] : Morale Tactic
[Raze] : Damage per tick [300]

Chosen : Destined For Victory = 200 points of Morale any time you block an attack, can not trigger more than one every 3 seconds


BO : Youz see me blok' dat' = Whenever you Block an attack you gain 4 percentage points worth of morale, will not trigger more than once every 3 seconds

Both tanks can build morals way faster than the rest of the order tanks, now try imagine if they use gear with moral gain

So i suppose now that you know that destruction has an upper hand on the morale thingie a balance will take place?

Use AM's to close the gap instead of spineless proposals.

[blaqwar]

You would have a much easier time with having people actually read your posts if you posted in a collected, friendly manner instead of your patented passive-agressive, condescending, snobbish approach. As it is your posting is seen as either trolling or feeding the trolls, an approach that's rather counterproductive, as you're appealing to the wrong crowd.

Good luck none-the-less.

[Osred]

Nobody cares about the damage morales are doing. Its about the overabundance of morale pumps on destro that is causing major discrepancy between Order warbands and Destro Warbands. Currently it is Morale Bomb = Win.

In a wb v wb session how is it fair that Order when reaching m1, destro tanks are reaching m3/4 and everyone else their m2s allowing a MASSIVE advantage in straight fights. He who fires off the bomb first wins the first engaement and in most cases the rest.

I'm reposting Aza's writeup.

Order

Pump

BW - Embrace the Flames - self 200 on crit, 3s retrigger = ~66/s
AM - Bolstering Boon - any 250/2s = 125/s

Drain

SM - Intimidating Blow - 100/5s = -20/s
WH - Vitriolic Judgement - 225 @ 25% direct damage to back of target

Destruction

Pump

CH - Destined for Victory - self 200 on block, 3s retrigger = 66/s
BO - You'z see me blok dat? - self 200 on block, 3s retrigger = 66/s
ZE - By Tzeentch's Will! - self 200 on critical heal, 3s retrigger = 66/s
SO - Glorious Carnage - self 200 on crit, 3s retrigger = 66s/s
SH - Get Movin'! - group 150/10s on direct damage = 15/s (150/5s with second tactic = 30/s)
SQ - Strength in Numbas - self 100/3s on 25% groupmate direct damage = 33/s?

Drain

BO - Lookin' For Opp'tunity - 216/1.15s = -187/s
SH - Hurts, Don't It? - 150/2s = -75/s
MA - Crushing Blows - 225 / 25% direct damage while in Monstrosity

Anyone reading this can see the obvious. Order had their crit nerfed. But crit can be mitigated, blocked, disrupted, dodged or even have their damage passively reduced through renown. Morale cannot. Why does destro have such a massive monopoly on morale gain.

[dontcomplainx]

Use AM's to close the gap instead of spineless proposals.

So order needs to use a AM in every single party go close the gap? LMAO , Destro tanks are able to build morals faster and they dont need another class to help them out, thats the point, but order needs an AM in every single party for that

[blakokami]

Use AM's to close the gap instead of spineless proposals.

So order needs to use a AM in every single party go close the gap? LMAO , Destro tanks are able to build morals faster and they dont need another class to help them out, thats the point, but order needs an AM in every single party for that

Not to mention that even if you had an AM in every party, why would that even matter? How can an archmage spam a 2s single target cast heal on all members in any reasonable amount of time. An again, as has been said before, the biggest advantage that destro gets from their morale pumps is the M4 (immaculate defense) from BO and CH.

The problem is exacerbated in small scale, as an AM will never be able to single target heal the tanks enough for them to get anywhere near the morale gain that BO and CH get from their morale pump tactics. Everyone knows these things, and knows how much of an imbalance there is because of it between destro and order in small scale, but there hasn't been enough crying I suppose for their to be much anything done about it. Even with order getting major nerfs with Knight and SW crit tactics, and also shatter limbs nerf. It's time for the destro to get some nerfs to even things out again imo. Even with the CH and BO morale pump tactics getting "nerfed" when the morale scaling changes came in, they can still both get to m4 within a minute even without any morale gear on and average amount of block (~15%, in other words block not being stacked).

And yes, my view is very biased towards small scale and how all of this effects 6v6/12v12.

[Tesq]

there is no problem with mara moral drain

25% to remove 225 points of moral from a hit that can be block/parried are you joking?

if your wb is positioned well there is no way this be an issue of course if you push with melee mixed with tanks yes...put first tank then the rest even if 9 ppl get it and you make those mara stay back and way from your dd lines by aoe even with a 100% ignoring attack he would hit 8 tanks and 1 dd; moreover chosen/bo only have access to raze which can be interrupt by aoe interrupt or aoe KD (or trade a m4 for the base lol).

This early bomb some of you are talking about is none existent, because no other destru classes have moral gain tactic for himself and/or other classes benefith classes which have or are primary aoe hitter like are bw/sorc (or need to exchange 1 shammy for either a dok/zealot) also an aoe m2 which in case of BW is all around him is a lot better than a positional from mara/we which most of times tend to miss if ppl moveing too much while the bw just need to be in the middle of anything and blow anything away lol.

Also you lower a lot the dmg of mara and force probably the mara deeper with the tank that is guarding him plus the chance to punt the tank away and leave mara undefended by magical damages. Order had their crit nerfed becaus it was a passive bonus 100% time active which require nothing from a kobs than just put a guard.
Order from the start of the fight in EVERY party have this passive advantage; if any destru party want choppa fasta is instead forced to take a choppa in every party. And moreover destru alpha strike last 20 sec while you're passive bonuses are always on.
Your alpha strike is a lot better than the destru. It feel only normal then the much the fight scale and go the more destru have better morales ( the only disadvanateg destru have atm in small/large scale is BO snare, well not like kobs+sm have a badder solution eh probable better in small scale).

The am yes is a problem which is why me personaly said fix it by himself since it could have problem due to being a cloth healer with the new way moral bumo work. But if Am got worse it's just that; not like mara became OP all togheter and can use 5-6 tactics. I always saw 1 am at least in every wb before moral patch
Fix am moral tactic would be the right course