[Mara] Deadly Clutch

[Toldavf]

So the marauder has for a very long time enjoyed the best collection of debuffs available in the game. It has an excellent wounds debuff, the best armour debuff and the ability to use a tactic to gain the best incoming heal debuff also. Wounds, armour, and inc heal no other single class in the game can bring all of this to the table and that is something of a problem.

So why is it a problem for a class to bring all of this to the table?, well simply answered if the marauder brings everything why take any other class?. Back on live it wasn't uncommon to see double Mara premades because well they where just that powerful other mdps where much less common.

So looking at which of the three abilities should be for the chop so to speak I eventually decided that deadly clutch would be the correct move for several reasons.

Firstly the other 2 abilities Cutting Claw the armour debuff is an important part of the marauders ability to do damage without it the marauder would cease to do damage and become completely undesirable as a dps, while Thunderous Blows (while on its short cool down) provides a substantial amount of the marauders total dps generally being used every cool down whether it was cleansed or not(Im aware the debuff up time is to long but different discussion for a different day).

Secondly removing the tactic encourages a greater diversity of classes being played as i believe if it is desirable to have multiples of any one class in a group then perhaps that is over preforming, by reducing the number of roles a marauder can fill you are opening up more formats for group composition.

My solution is simple enough, the deadly clutch tactic should be removed for a trial period after which it can be reassessed. If it is found that marauder preforms adequately without it's 50% incoming heal debuff then deadly clutch can be ear marked for a rework once the new client is done.

[Penril]

Moving to discussions. However, i'm not sure Deatly Clutch can be simply "removed". So maybe focus on discussing if:

a) DC needs a nerf, Y/N?
b) What would that nerf be

[zabis]

I would suggest a nerf to either the wounds debuff or the armor debuff, making running a Malice BG more viable.

[Arteker616]

I would suggest a nerf to either the wounds debuff or the armor debuff, making running a Malice BG more viable.

i do not think a mdps nerf in order to ensure a tank desirability is a good idea , and a serious think to achive balance. judge marauder for his role as mdps and bg for what he is a tank.

aswell judging a ability for what others class has or not is not a good idea ( choppa claiming agaisnt slayer would be a hugue fuss and others i believe).


All mdps have anti heal abilitys. in some cases even 2(choppa) first and foremost the marauder in order to use the ability at his fullest need to specialize and get a tactic for the use of the heal debuff at their fullest power. others mdps dont .
thats why i do not think marauder should get it nerfed or changed in any case.

i plead to people to stop calling for nerfs in order to benefeit order class and focus in improving and making good posts adressing flaws in the other character without falling to use other toons in ordder to promote changes.in this case marauder dps has allready suffer from a serious hit due to the changes in thunderous blow .

[Frontenstuermer]

Spoiler:

I would suggest to stop to nerf destro chars more and more.
I promise you if we compare destro/order mirror class you will see some advantages at order.
so stop this really

Shitposting in Balance forums - Azarael

[TenTonHammer]

i do not think a mdps nerf in order to ensure a tank desirability is a good idea , and a serious think to achive balance. judge marauder for his role as mdps and bg for what he is a tank.

BG is an offensively oriented debuff tank, one of the many reasons that BG is not viable for group play is ability redundancy with Mara, who has a similar but superior version of pretty much every debuff BG has so its not even about roles, it about viability in group play

aswell judging a ability for what others class has or not is not a good idea ( choppa claiming agaisnt slayer would be a hugue fuss and others i believe).

Balance fourm rules forbid making arguments based on you mirror so this is not an issue

All mdps have anti heal abilitys. in some cases even 2(choppa) first and foremost the marauder in order to use the ability at his fullest need to specialize and get a tactic for the use of the heal debuff at their fullest power. others mdps dont .
thats why i do not think marauder should get it nerfed or changed in any case.

No more helpin on choppa is actually a rather weak ability that i dont see people going and specing, and for good reason

Running 2H choppa espically with this ability requires no rage drop, choppa is already squishy, 2H choppa is squishier and 2H choppa, with no rage drop is even more so, additionally its not even necessary as if your party is so hell bent on wanting outgoing heal debuffs then BG's soul killer is a much much better option.

Deadly Clutch is a tactic that Mara uses to compensate for the fact that maras has a core inc hd unlike every other class that has to spec for it, using it prevents mara form using its myriad of other amazing tactics and limits its damage potential

hell ive seen maras already skip out on the heal tactic for more dmg and still kill healers with only 25% debuff

in this case marauder dps has allready suffer from a serious hit due to the changes in thunderous blow .

the only thing that was weakened was maras burst spike potential which in the grand scheme of things did absolutely nothing

TB is a broken ability it gives maras high front load burst potential with 500~ dmg to a target then their hp is debuffed by 1200+ thats a lot of damage on to a target in the opening moments of an engagement and mara also has strong backload burst as well due to giouttine crits


TB is the highest wounds debuff in the game, has the highest uptime, and unlike every other wounds debuff in the game does not have any requirements

a) DC needs a nerf, Y/N?
b) What would that nerf be

A.
Deadly clutch does not because using the tactic has the downside of preventing mara from using its other amazing tactics and holds back its DPS potential if used and it only exists because mara needs to "spec something" like every other MDPS for its 50% inc hd and so had a leech heal tac'd on to justify the tactic slot

The real issue with sav is not DC it is TB and CC, and the fact that they are the best versions of their abilities in the game with additions such as undefendable and high uptimes, their ability scaling also makes other options inferior

B.
N/A

[Stmichael1989]

I actually think deadly clutch is the wrong target here. A tactic that boosts their heal debuff to the potency of most other heal debuffs and adds some extra survivability to a supposed bruiser class is well within the scope of Marauder's original design, and is an all around well designed tactic.

The issues I have with marauder are that 1) they can have their cake and eat it too, and 2) their wounds debuff specifically drops most targets to an unreasonably low health pool on only a 5 second cooldown.

Given that it's not a whole lot of fun to be a melee DPS that doesn't do much damage, I'd say give some of marauder's stronger debuffs a longer cooldown rather than nerf their damage. 30 seconds on TB should be long enough to let it still be a good tactical decision without being part of an insta-gib spam rotation.

[Toldavf]

Given that it's not a whole lot of fun to be a melee DPS that doesn't do much damage, I'd say give some of marauder's stronger debuffs a longer cooldown rather than nerf their damage. 30 seconds on TB should be long enough to let it still be a good tactical decision without being part of an insta-gib spam rotation.

Actually unlike the other mdps archetypes marauder and white lions are rotation based classes their levels of dps is directly linked to how quickly their abilities cool off. So adjusting cool downs does nerf damage.

[SRoth137]

The issues I have with marauder are that 1) they can have their cake and eat it too, and 2) their wounds debuff specifically drops most targets to an unreasonably low health pool on only a 5 second cooldown.

TB was changed to a 10s cooldown already.

Marauder is a medium dps melee debuffer that excels neither in orvr or solo. It shines in exactly one situation: organized group play with a melee train and a dedicated guard. I cannot fathom why any melee classes are being considered for nerfs in this absurdly ranged biased meta.

[TenTonHammer]

Marauder is a medium dps melee debuffer that excels neither in orvr or solo..

This is false

Mara is one of the best solo melee classes in the game additionally maras oRvR spec for WB play is very strong