[DoK/WP] Willpower based melee healing

[Tesq]

These values are pretty high considering we are talking about spamming not critting hits with a base low dmg.

My dok can 1k only with crit heal, here i see some scenarios which a melee dok would jusy spam it all the time without crits which lead me to ask again before any willp and crit fix to do first balance the criteria to assign heal value and the remove of any dmg % increase. Since if the aim is be able to both cast heal and melee heals then the risks vs reward talk is going to hell, since you are going to remove the only weakness of dok / wp which is set back and not have a way to heal on the move.

The values between TE and group heal and their contribution criteria should all be the same. Which also incorporate OP proposal.
Do the op proposal without do first any adjustment to the way all the values go off or are calculates will just create further unbalance on a matter which is problematic: the platform of how TE and group heal work should be the nearest possible. Currently is totally the opposite
This from 1 side is need to balance dok/wp role as melee healer and from another one to start moving it into a melee caster role.

This from the other side will change the dps mode which is able to burst heal currently and basically help in increasing group ttk/ lowering enemy team pressure. Into a dps thay will also provide a bit of heals.

Moving into this way i may also suggest that after fix melee heals since they remove core weakness. The totall sum of TE dmg + heal shold be = to the value of the group heal. This way you are both gona make reliable melee heals in everyone backline set up without make great rework itiem / database side + but not making them op since the melee heals will be slight worst ( but no set back and can cast on the move so this is balanced) and the dmg component can be use for offensive purpose BUT will be countered by block parry.
Then again as general rule all heal will be equally debuffable.

[altharion1]

Why melee healing must have advantages over ranged healing

The advantages melee heals have to have over ranged healing must be enough to counter the issues below. If the advantages aren't enough then 100ft range healing will always be preferable. The advantages could be any of the following
- Higher levels of healing output
- Undefendable/reduced chance to be defended melee heal abilities
- Heals not affected by heal debuff
- Secondary effects such as procs or the like

Advantages of Range healing on DoK/WP
- 100ft safety from melee DPS/tanks
- 200ft safety from ranged DPS
- Every disadvantage of melee healing is an advantage of range healing. As range healing will suffer all of the effects mentioned below less often.
- AP procs
- Absorb procs

Disadvantages of Range healing on DoK/WP
- Setback


Advantages of Melee healing on DoK/WP
- Heals are not effected by heal debuff

Disadvantages of Melee healing on DoK/WP
- Suffer more CC + snares
- Suffer more damage from melee DPS
- Perma in range of RDPS
- Require more focus heals more often from the 2nd healer in party
- Have to use defensive moral abilities more often for self preservation
- Suffer more debuffs
- Suffer more heal debuffs
- Require guard more often, makes your DPS more susceptible to damage
- Most of the time you'll be badly positioned to resurrect
- No AP and absorb procs
- You will die more often

P.S if you are finding that setback is a constant problem for you when healing then you are playing your healer incorrectly or your positioning and awareness is terrible. Do not select a stationary long cast healing ability when being focused.

[Sulorie]

Well, unlike on live server dok/wp already have to be closer to the fight to gain se/rf, because there are no regen procs. On 100ft range every other healer class outheals you.

[freshour]

My only suggestion is that the healing portion of TE be drastically increased and the base damage of the move itself be drastically decreased. It only becomes OP when the class is dealing outstanding damage + outstanding heals. The majority of the whining about the class is in regards to that so if you cover that. I think it would be a pretty cool change.

[Tesq]

I think the balanace between cast and melee should be perfect, while to enforce the use of melee it should be the job of the essence management or range rduced for cast heals.
By make melee job more mandatory you secure that

Blood offering with a lot of regen but also a lot of CD and lot of channeling time to make it less performing in pressure situatiom and only worth in keep fight. Couple this with a soft essence reduction to cast stuff. Blood offering is not anymore mandatory and in pressure situation where you need to spamm you are forced to switch to melee.
So the balance between TE and g heal is a thing, to enforce the melee heal is another one. Things as willpower/ heal crit and absorb tactic must all work on TE. To make this kind of idea work while melee crit and str must stop to work

[Bozzax]

Spoiler:

Why melee healing must have advantages over ranged healing

The advantages melee heals have to have over ranged healing must be enough to counter the issues below. If the advantages aren't enough then 100ft range healing will always be preferable. The advantages could be any of the following
- Higher levels of healing output
- Undefendable/reduced chance to be defended melee heal abilities
- Heals not affected by heal debuff
- Secondary effects such as procs or the like

Advantages of Range healing on DoK/WP
- 100ft safety from melee DPS/tanks
- 200ft safety from ranged DPS
- Every disadvantage of melee healing is an advantage of range healing. As range healing will suffer all of the effects mentioned below less often.
- AP procs
- Absorb procs

Disadvantages of Range healing on DoK/WP
- Setback


Advantages of Melee healing on DoK/WP
- Heals are not effected by heal debuff

Disadvantages of Melee healing on DoK/WP
- Suffer more CC + snares
- Suffer more damage from melee DPS
- Perma in range of RDPS
- Require more focus heals more often from the 2nd healer in party
- Have to use defensive moral abilities more often for self preservation
- Suffer more debuffs
- Suffer more heal debuffs
- Require guard more often, makes your DPS more susceptible to damage
- Most of the time you'll be badly positioned to resurrect
- No AP and absorb procs
- You will die more often

P.S if you are finding that setback is a constant problem for you when healing then you are playing your healer incorrectly or your positioning and awareness is terrible. Do not select a stationary long cast healing ability when being focused.

Being out of range, absorbs, avoidance, challenge, def morales, CS, CD increasers being melee, guard, kd + punt combo, detaunts etc ... makes being unaffected by HDs kind of meh

I think yor post pretty much sums up why a melee healer with low dps is pointless. BLs simply are more reliable and self sustaining.

Lastly a melee healer also looses the no 1 melee survival tool. Kite off and drop FF pressure.

[altharion1]

Being out of range, absorbs, avoidance, challenge, def morales, CS, CD increasers being melee, guard, kd + punt combo, detaunts etc ... makes being unaffected by HDs kind of meh

I think yor post pretty much sums up why a melee healer with low dps is pointless. BLs simply are more reliable and self sustaining. Also a melee healer also looses the no 1 melee survival tool. Kite off and drop FF pressure.

I deal specifically with the issue of being out of range for melee targets to heal off and kiting off in my proposal. My proposal allows for short periods of back line healing when necessary. But the increased cooldown on blood offering would mean that melee heals would have to be the primary method. You would also be able to quickly unslot the tactic on the fly and suddenly you'd be a pure back line healer again when presented with situations that are just impossible for melee healing.

I think people are still focusing too much on damage being any part of my proposal.

My proposal seeks to make the damage output almost irrelevant (as much as possible within the constraints of how the abilities currently work), and make the healing output strong enough that it becomes a viable option.

Thus I propose a skill based situation where the potential heals from the melee healing abilities are very strong, however you have to have the target selection, battlefield and situational awareness and good ability selection to harness the potential strength of the melee healing. The heals would be strong enough to provide some survivability for the DoK/WP and provide much increased healing to group over the standard range healing dok/WP spec. But only if you can play it well enough.

You wouldn't be in the front line with the melee train all of the time. Instead, you'd always be looking for good targets around the edge of fights, over extending 2hander tanks or mdps or pets. If you group pushes, you'd push in the front line with them, melee healing on the debuffed targets, using the melee train for protection. When someone is seriously focused you'd have to use a combination of SE/RF melee heals, AP melee heals, ranged heals, HoTs - depending on what the situation is.

I don't claim my proposal is the best solution. With client control you could completely redesign the whole class, and I'm sure every player on the forum would have a different idea on how to do it. I believe my proposal is the simplest way to make melee healing viable, within the constraints of current abilities and mechanics, without impacting other dok/WP specs. It would only change 1 tactic and wouldn't force anyone to use it.

[Tesq]

@alth the point Is if i you only allow to heal via soft target and also lower too much the dmg this is basically nerf the melee heals. That's why i said. Remove all the dmg multiers at once and change all contribution + make all heals always go on.

If You can be block/ parry and your dmg matter in regard your heals, you can be theorically removed from the fight. By kite , simple by bring high armor stuff / guard detaunt etc you get where this go. Basically your output is determined by enemy comp and your rate in hit soft target: Basically is always play with something out of your controll.
Also enemy can pell you easier if you cannot heall by hit tank , this principle of balance around skill just gona lead us out of the way here.

All healer are healing by do 3 things

1 check enemy positiom
2 check friendly Position
3 check friendly hp bar

Then they act as conseguence with heal ppl or move around themself or cc

And enemy by kiting away cant stop you from heal( now even less with am/sh change for heal on the move).
You would alredy start with a handicap while all the rest not.

[freshour]

Revision 1.2 is what I was going mention. I think that if there is going to be this big deal about life taps not being affected/being affected by HD's that they really need significant parry strikethrough. If they aren't given that, then at least allow them to bypass bubbles/block as they aren't what I would consider a significant amount of damage. But they are the reason why a SM can essentially render a melee healing dok completely useless. So I like this revision a lot.

[Bozzax]

Guys melee healing can never be reliable as long as a KD + superpunt gives you about 10-20 seconds of downtime. More if you were low on sf/rf when cced. Changing to willpower based does not make melee healing.

However removing damage kills melee heal for 2-3 man roam where it actually is viable atm.