[Dev] White Lion proposal

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wargrimnir
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#111 » Fri May 17, 2019 12:36 am

Dear veteran players. I've seen a couple things come up that should be clarified.

1. This is a nerf. No need to sugarcoat it. Pick your poison in your arguments, but the end result will come to pass one way or another. We're not terribly concerned with comparisons to other classes as they don't exhibit the same problem.

2. Don't hide behind "solo/pug !!" as if those arguments are entirely baseless (some are more baseless than others). There is a vast number of average players that are affected by balance, and we're done ignoring them.
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Karast
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#112 » Fri May 17, 2019 1:41 am

A quick question for Wargrimnir,

Do you have any metrics on the current level of burst damage between comparably geared melee dps?

There are often complaints that WL has too much burst but when it comes down to hard numbers from a sample rotation there really is nothing to be found, and unless if you have access to equally ranked, and geared toons it is hard to really test and compare the burst dps.

It would really be nice to have some bench marks that look at length of rotation and total damage.

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Leecifer
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#113 » Fri May 17, 2019 1:43 am

Tweak down pet scaling with WL stats.

Boom, balanced.
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#114 » Fri May 17, 2019 1:51 am

very cool answer wargrimmir and we will see what the patch brings

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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#115 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:18 am

Its okay to nerf the Guardian spec, I think its deserved as it does pose a problem in lower tiers of play. But I think other specs for the class should be compensated accordingly. Primal Fury should be buffed so that its 25% damage is not dependent on the enemies direction, and Pack Synergy should likely be reworked in a manner that isnt a tactic that depends on the pet to be alive.

Changing the burst in a way that pugs can survive it also means that the class wont really have much of a place in competitive play, because the pet is such a big liability vs good players. There should be some compensation to bring the other specs of WL into a more competitive state (read: less dependence on a pet).

WL already doesnt have a place in warbands, not giving it a bone for play vs good players while nerfing it kind of puts the class in an awkward state.

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Stophy22
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#116 » Fri May 17, 2019 3:42 am

Sorry I wasn’t trying to hide behind solo/pug. I know a vast amount of people see the game as to be balanced around group play. Whether this means 6 v 6 or just grouped with other careers is not known to me. I just wanted to share the POV from a solo/pug player who has some experience under his belt. I choose to play the game in a solo environment and I don’t expect it be balanced around that.

The main points I wanted to get across is the WL can do effectively what 2 people on the opposite realm have to do. (Marauder doesn’t have CS and SH doesn’t have 1.5k armor strip) and thusly causes it to over preform in a solo pug environment which when it does this is very off putting to players of all but I’m most concerned new players who pick up ROR and try it out and are faced with this wall of damage called the WL and struggle to find a way to deal with it and may eventually give up. Not everyone is nostalgically attached and therefore won’t stick around if the game isn’t fun. Getting killed in a few seconds without having counter play options just isn’t fun.

A lot of players also want an aoe warband spec for WL, I think I that’s something to look into. Could be a positive addition to the class
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#117 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:48 am

Try this.
Brutal Pounce should be afected by IGC. If it's not enough change it to ability will be active only when pet is in melee range (now u can pop it when pet is distant from target ).
Charge should only afect player not pet.
If needed change Pounce cd from 10 sec to 20 sec.
Test it. If not enough next step is start discussion about Force Oportunity. It should be usefull in curent form for only Hunter Axeman spec not a Guardian. For Guardian armor debuff ability should be pet based ability like Shred and ofc in shred values which is way less than FO.
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NoRKaLKiLLa
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#118 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:52 am

Personally, I'd up the AP cost of pounce so a WL still has it's front loaded burst as is, but it cannot execute it immediately after a pounce. This requires either standard good positioning, the use of a charge or flee/AP pot or an AP buff from a group member to get to a target.

Secondly I'd make knockdown require the WL to have parried an attack to have access to the KD for 5s. This way magic RDPS and healers couldn't be pounced and KD'd instantaneously. Then I'd observe the changes for a week.
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Rockalypse
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#119 » Fri May 17, 2019 6:55 am

I think for balance purpose it is reasonable to look at TTK before making any changes.
For example we can take healer/dps/tank classes in BiS or average gear and take their averaged healthpools and stats.

After that is done - desirable TTK against each should be decided. How long should it take for dps to burst through previously made template.

This won't take into account utility things of balanced class and group enviroment, but will atleast give reasoning behind number change and base to start.

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Grunbag
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Re: [Dev] White Lion proposal

Post#120 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:54 am

I think we could nerf a bit ST burst tools and increase a bit WL aoe capacities .

My ideas was :

- Ethereal Cleave New Hunter 9pts Ability: You cleave your enemies within 30 feet, dealing X spiritual damage over 21 seconds. Your targets take a 80 ability penalty to Initiative and Weaponskill.
- Echoing Roar radius is increased by 10ft
- Force Opportunity move to Hunter 13pts
- Whirling Axe move to Hunter Core.
- Pack Hunting : While you are using Trained to Hunt , all of your hits have a 25% chance to remove 225 points of Morale from the enemy.
- Brutal Pounce need your pet to be 30ft within you
- Pet stats are scaled down
- General pet code (for all pet career when they summon their pet) : Any time you are healed, your Pet will become healed for 25% of the value as long as it is within 30 feet.

This would give WL a niche in WB (as we balance around group and warband this could be taken into consideration) , being a « good pick » but not best pick , while reduce his ST capacities. In addition , pets would be less an handicap and WL would finally enjoy more aspect of the game (siege and large scale fights)
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