[IronBreaker] Grumble An’ Mutter

[Ruin]

Take a look at the killboard and see who is effectively farming the WE regen plague on the server.

Just folwed your advice, and to be honest IB is probably in the midlle of WE farmers, after WL, WH, SM, WP, Slay and Engi.

Do you know what i found when looking at their engadments? Bood of Grimnig had a total of 0% dmg contri to kill.

[Alubert]

Because you misunderstood me.
BoG is the best IB skill.
Maybe it's less necessary in a solo roam environment.
Since the beginning of the server, the balance has been based on team play.
If you don't use or don't like a skill in a 1v1 environment, it doesn't mean it should be removed.
When playing solo in a team game, you have to adapt and accept its basics.
Replacing GnM with BoG was perfect in my opinion because it gives IB as a tank utility (in addition, for the whole party, unlike most of his ST skills).

[Farrul]

Oh wow, yeah the cool down starting after the duration is a giant nerf. Apparently it was still too strong and had to be removed.

Yeah right.

Playing IB lately feels more complicated than ever with the added cool down to Oathbound.

I would also like to see the, Furious Reprisal, tactic tied to a different ability. Having the CD increaser tied to your KD is complete garbage. Honesty I'd rather have it on, Grudging Blow. Vengeful Strike seems like an appropriate substitute, as it costs 10 grudge. Right now that ability is pretty low on the rotation priority.

Yes, first it got nerfed and then removed. As of right know IB 2H is just not on par with other Order 2H tanks it feels like a few players are still doing it because of nostalgia. But count how many 2H IB's are in the game right now compared to 2H knights and SM. Vast majority IB is SnB simply because it is better for almost everything( solo, warband etc).

GnM is the main reason but other nerfs like to heavy blow, and the fact that it still has the old problems of being effectively a 3 tactic class due to mandatory grudge regen tactic to even work.

Anyways, Year is 2026 and some are still waiting on the ''promised'' return of GnM.

[Deadpoet]

they dont need the heal what they need is people to stop going 2h & complaining they have no survivability the devs are taking this game back to being holy trinity so the days of going 2h tank & wanting to do damage & have survivability are over if you dont like dying use a shield you dont like getting kited by range & magic use a shield, you lot trying to smoosh a square block into a round hole over & over & complaining it doesnt fit is getting old the game has changed either adapt or have fun smooshing your square block

the devs are taking this game back to being holy trinity. That does sound good. Wait, def/regen WE....hmmm

[nocturnalguest]

Replacing GnM with BoG was perfect in my opinion because it gives IB as a tank utility (in addition, for the whole party, unlike most of his ST skills).

Yeah, previously it had no utility... oh, wait, it was best passive ap pump in game which you could active with GnM and a meta build for orvr/city

On a serious note. Im not so much interested in solo shenanigans and dont actually care what spot IB takes in it, but atm whole our indepth discussion in this very thread with gersy still stands. BoG is unreachable as 2h, you trade way too much, on top of it warlord set nerfed into oblivion, ws/ini change = you cant take it as 2h, so you have to go 5/5/13 offensive snb and trade on-demand KD. Especially now then parry buff is so valuable as never before.
Yes, its pretty fun to run in regular SCs, especially in a comps with 2h slayer, WL. But thats not the way how to look at an ability.

solo - BoG is useless
regular SCs/pugging/orvr roaming - BoG is amazing
6v6 - debatable, depends on comp/players, IB able to overcompensate BoG buff with its own damage in GBF build but its huge pressure on your own healers if IB goes offensive, you may get punished. conditional KD as SnB (!!!), even tho you can build SnB pretty offensive
24v24 - mostly worthless, very limited niche usage in st group
orvr - BoG is useless

There is nothing to debate pretty much. BoG is a nerf for largescale gameplay vs. AP pump which was a synergy with GnM. Point. Soloyolo aside.

[Wdova]

BoG is centered about small scale, limited composition of melee dps party. Useless for ranged party, useless for solo, useless in warbands the whole game is centered around.

An abbility that benefits some of your party members if they are no healers, ranged dps or snb tanks....

As Nocrutrnal stated. You sacrifice too much to grab it as a 2H damage assist tank. Thats all.

[Mortgrimm]

After the last changes IB became the tank with the least dmg, even Knight passed him. They do double the dmg now.
GnM is just one point. Why remove it? Cause of the healing aspect? Hmmm ... then i wonder why regen items exist and why regen WE is even stronger now.
The nerf of Heavy Blow really hit hard. It wasn´t even that strong but our strongest. Says a lot. BoG is imo a total waste. If u play in a 2/2/2 setup it only effects 2 ppl. After some RvR tests i skipped this ability. Okay, u get one aoe attack. 25% aa dmg increase ... Yeah, i can hit with 125 dmg instead of 100. Nice joke. Basically with all the changes IB ends up as full turtle tank only. All other tanks are way better in 2h dps spec. And i loved 2h IB.
Maybe with all the good examples and suggestions ppl gave here already, the devs consider to take a look at this.

[Ruin]

Well id say that 2H IB issue now is the placemnet of Parry skill, its locked behind mastery that does not support 2H playstyle. It should be moved either to Vengaace or Brtherhood.
all other tanks have it Paired in mastery with ysefull skills like KD or AoE Slow.

[zgolec]

This skill was bread n butter for solo IBs...
Irrelevant in other setups... Without it 1v1 deftard WEs are tankier then IB

[nocturnalguest]

After the last changes IB became the tank with the least dmg, even Knight passed him. They do double the dmg now.
GnM is just one point. Why remove it? Cause of the healing aspect? Hmmm ... then i wonder why regen items exist and why regen WE is even stronger now.
The nerf of Heavy Blow really hit hard. It wasn´t even that strong but our strongest. Says a lot. BoG is imo a total waste. If u play in a 2/2/2 setup it only effects 2 ppl. After some RvR tests i skipped this ability. Okay, u get one aoe attack. 25% aa dmg increase ... Yeah, i can hit with 125 dmg instead of 100. Nice joke. Basically with all the changes IB ends up as full turtle tank only. All other tanks are way better in 2h dps spec. And i loved 2h IB.
Maybe with all the good examples and suggestions ppl gave here already, the devs consider to take a look at this.

You are probably looking into wrong direction.
Usual kotbs in regular SC just fluff scoreboard numbers (some may say countering absorbs lol), once kotbs changes hit live all i see in SCs is huge throwing from lots of kotbs who could have been of much better use to their team in proper spec. Incredibly pathetic. Just take a look at their kill damage, dont look into overall number, and you will see that 2h IB kill damage in regular SC is usually higher then SM even.
IB still burstiest tank (with GBF spec obviously). Offensive build viable both as 2h and SnB.

GnM was removed to specifically hit solo meta, obviously. That was not very fun for particular team to chase one in random SCs and be unable to kill it easily. Regen + IB tools + GnM was pretty toxic. However it lead to huge hit into IB meta build of AP pumping and also created even more toxic offensive SnB solo meta. In return it made pretty braindead BoG meta (cause skill is hit and forget) in regular SCs and some specific comps utilizing it. Loss - loss - win actually.

Heavy Blow nerf is completely irrelevant. It was done because skill had insane scalers (no other tank has had anything like it, it was literally DPS level of scalers). Ive already fought my battles on that, im strongly against it but not because its a nerf but because its design&approach issue. It was a change for a sake of change, it didnt anyhow change any gameplay or playstyle, its totally irrelevant in grand scheme of things. I dont support to change things for nothing but i dont care about unification of its scalers, it just made no result. So your argument and logic of "IB bad DPS because heavy blow nerf" is completely wrong.

Irrelevant in other setups...

Tells alot how much you know about setups and specs.