[Magus] Why so weak?

[peterthepan3]

Though most of these classes can actually perform to a good degree on a 6man scale apart from the Magus/Engi (I know there's a discrepancy between melee and ranged, but this is something that can be looked at in the future I am sure). Hell even a DPS AM offers more to a 6man than an engineer or magus imo.

[Krima]

magus in my guild vallendus.. dominates rvr.. top DBS and dmg every scenario.. watch him!

[Tankbeardz]

magus in my guild vallendus.. dominates rvr.. top DBS and dmg every scenario.. watch him!

This is possible with weak group comp, poorly coordinated groups and pugs. I mean...I've won with a magus in a 6v6 before...that doesn't mean the class doesn't need some work.

[peterthepan3]

magus in my guild vallendus.. dominates rvr.. top DBS and dmg every scenario.. watch him!

-sigh-
i also regularly get top DBs in scenarios. that does not mean anything and has no bearing on 6man balance.

[Renork]

Can we make it so that we can leave our disks and become "mdps"? :^)

[footpatrol2]

ok then, the magus mechanic isn't clunky because you said so! and loads of other magi have been wrong all this time.!

Have those magus players tried the defensive style of play I'm writing about?

you fail to point out that the pet dies within 2/3 hits rendering the 20% dmg buff null in such a defensive setup.

The pet gets healed off of AoE healing. The pet can also get splash healing through leaping alteration/RP version. The pet also benefits from HTL.

In these groups I've ran (which I have ran a chaos group on this server a couple of times and dwarf groups countless times in live), I haven't had a large problem with the pet dying. Does the pet die sometimes? yes. But then you just re-summon the pet when it is convenient to do so. Oh well... not that big of a deal. Does the 20% damage boost instantly disappear when your pet dies? No it doesn't. Am I completely dependant on ap feeds from the magus/engie pets in these defensive groups? No. I still have rituals/runes aura's and tactic's. The ap feeds from the pets just make these defensive groups have an even more gross AP advantage then normal.

[footpatrol2]

Static game? That simply doesn't work vs any good melee train. I love magus, don't get me wrong, but if you just stand around and expect to win vs any group with half a brain...you are going to lose. Mist and Napalm are fluff damage and are great for initializing procs for the other team - I mean killing pugs is great and all but...

As for your hold the line argument...tanks aren't just hold the line bots...they have so many other useful skills. Just my 2 cents..

These groups do very well against melee trains. If you stack enough fluff damage that fluff damage can't be ignored. By itself mist/napalm is not that great but when you stack it with a ton of other fluff damage concentrated in one specific spot the damage becomes a real threat and its constant pressure. Its not about one ability. Its about the orchestration of many abilities that provide the constant pressure. Mist/Napalm is fire and forget. Its basically AP free damage...

Did I say tanks were hold the line bots? No. Its a trick in your bag that you can do as a group if the situation calls for it. Your still switchin guards/switching oathfriends/rotating challenging shouts/contributing to defensive morale cycle/buffing yourself/buffing your groupmates/Body blocking/Provide controlled AE knockbacks to relieve pressure if our group was taking too much damage. We'd have 4 tanks. The tanks would take take turns kicking undesirable players (enemy tanks) out of our mist/napalm. 3 tanks would keep HTL up if there was a ranged threat and 1 tank would be kicking. Once he is done kicking he goes back to HTL and another starts kicking. We'd rotate it. So yeah I'd agree tanks have so many other useful skills which these defensive groups utilize. But you assume they don't.

These defensive groups are built specifically around the magus/engineer and utilizing their strengths. There is no frontline or backline in these groups. There can be but you'd rift defensively if done so.

[peterthepan3]

'if you stack enough fluff damage that fluff damage can't be ignored'

/sigh

That's why you see warbands with 3000 magi/engi padding dots and killing their enemies, right?

A mist magus:
* brings 2/3 aoe dots that can be cleansed (IB can't);
* mist - which can be dealt with easily by moving away from it;
* ????



some of the points you have made recently I agree with and think you have good suggestions, but I think you should stop with the theorycrafting stuff (especially when it pertains to a class that several people in this thread have played extensively) as we're yet to see actual results still =P

[footpatrol2]

So... I thought we cured this can't be dealt with easily thing? You stack your group in the mist. Mdps and tanks have to eat the mist if they want to do anything to you. You place the mist in important spots like I mentioned earlier. If you want to get the most of of engie's/magus's as a class build these defensive style type groups and stop participating in the kiting meta.

WP/DoK's have group cleanse. They are the counter to engie's/magus dots... Oh well. They have to constantly cleanse while you constantly place dots... Oh well.

I guess since your focus is on 6 man you see this as a big problem. My focus is on 2 6 man groups working together. Because of my perspective of scale I don't see the magus as bad at all.

I kinda feel like i'm trying to hand you 1000 dollars and you keep calling me stupid. But its 1000 dollars... People like money right? But every time I try and hand you 1000 dollars you keep saying i'm dumb. So I walk away confused and keep doing my thang. Maybe i'll try and hand you 1000 dollars later i guess. Maybe you'll keep calling me stupid...

Have you even tried what I'm talking about? I suspect not. I did this stuff for YEARS.

[Tankbeardz]

Static game? That simply doesn't work vs any good melee train. I love magus, don't get me wrong, but if you just stand around and expect to win vs any group with half a brain...you are going to lose. Mist and Napalm are fluff damage and are great for initializing procs for the other team - I mean killing pugs is great and all but...

As for your hold the line argument...tanks aren't just hold the line bots...they have so many other useful skills. Just my 2 cents..

These groups do very well against melee trains. If you stack enough fluff damage that fluff damage can't be ignored. By itself mist/napalm is not that great but when you stack it with a ton of other fluff damage concentrated in one specific spot the damage becomes a real threat and its constant pressure. Its not about one ability. Its about the orchestration of many abilities that provide the constant pressure. Mist/Napalm is fire and forget. Its basically AP free damage...

Did I say tanks were hold the line bots? No. Its a trick in your bag that you can do as a group if the situation calls for it. Your still switchin guards/switching oathfriends/rotating challenging shouts/contributing to defensive morale cycle/buffing yourself/buffing your groupmates/Body blocking/Provide controlled AE knockbacks to relieve pressure if our group was taking too much damage. We'd have 4 tanks. The tanks would take take turns kicking undesirable players (enemy tanks) out of our mist/napalm. 3 tanks would keep HTL up if there was a ranged threat and 1 tank would be kicking. Once he is done kicking he goes back to HTL and another starts kicking. We'd rotate it. So yeah I'd agree tanks have so many other useful skills which these defensive groups utilize. But you assume they don't.

These defensive groups are built specifically around the magus/engineer and utilizing their strengths. There is no frontline or backline in these groups. There can be but you'd rift defensively if done so.

1. To the mist is fire and forget...I say...sidestep.
2. If you need 4 tanks to run this group...then you aren't running a 6 man or your group isn't really killing anything but pugs, is it?. I didn't assume anything and I have lots of experience tanking.