Battle Fatigue

[Kov]

BrokRiefenstahl Said:

Spoiler:

again farmhammer, eh,
why we must pay for healing?
again rich ppl have better situation,
that is totally bad, very bad joke

Thats whats just going on O RVR lol...

All melees and even tanks stand behind because if they dont get rezzed they get battle fatigue.
Meanwhile Ranges stand in secure line with the healers and have their fun.
In Todays case it looks like this (example) Just leveling a toon and in T1 RvR Order farm Destru at their ramp to their camp.

So the melees stand behind (because they cant go in or they die) Meanwhile a battle of 2 hours is going on.
A battle between Sorc/Magus Healers vs BWs Healers and a couple of SW's.

Melee to play in PUG orvr is already pain in the ass but with this battlefatigue change its even worse. I dont even feel the slightest need in partizipating in this bullshit. There is 1 Warband that is full and a second one with like 5 melees no healer no tank.

If you run in as melee and you die, you wont get a rezz, the healers are busy healing all the precious BWs or dont give a **** about melees at all.

I can turn it as I want, I dont see a sense behind this, making open RvR even more borked for melee.
(In the past I was one of the few that had balls to go into the frontlines) but now its pissing me off and I go and grind mobs while siting in 1-2 hour scenario queues... Nice work!

I don't disagree with the points made. I play primarily melee characters like a slayer or an ironbreaker but I'm beginning to fear that I won't be able to play them effectively without a pocket healer. Melee on order is already lacking and the update might just force the game to be as stated by BrockRiefenstahl all for ranged characters. The thing is I understand that it is to be because of people farming and inflating the economy with the ridiculous amount of gold they earn through said farming and flipping in the AH.

10% reduction of wounds for 15 minutes that is untreatable without paying a healer seems somewhat of a harsh punishment for the inflation of gold. It doesn't fix the AH prices and it doesn't fix the 'rich' being rich it just makes everyone equally poorer by putting a 'tax' on death. The way I see it is that it will only encourage bad behaviours within the community like previously mentioned 'Flipping' on items in the AH or camping in a zone or 'Zerging' or cowardly play by either side that is losing.

I propose an idea that could help but is mainly to 'spitball' ideas:
1. Tax the AH according to the price listed for the item. The higher the player is listing the item the higher their tax is.

2. If you won't remove Battle Fatigue either add additional ways to remove the sickness or make the price be levelled to T2+ as healers rarely have the ability to rez/do rez in T1. This allows new players to amass around 2-6 gold-- if they do not squander it on simple items-- and to get a hold of the mechanics of their classes.

3. Make more money through oRvR. As it is it's pretty hard to make a good living whilst only doing oRvR and buying cauldrons and cannons do not pay for themselves. (Also without cannons & cauldrons it makes for a stale keep defence/attack gameplay) I'm not saying add purples/blues just add a bit of gold/silver per kill -- I know there already is that but just a wee bit more would be nice as well as add gold/silver for keep/BO captures (no idea how).



I'm no developer or programmer with knowledge on how to run a game as you guys do, I only play games and comment on what I like/dislike. I wish it to be known that I love this game and playing it is absolutely fun in many aspects though you have come far from the humble beginnings 2 years ago you have a journey ahead of all you and all of us who play the game and I wish to walk the journey with all of you guys. The game is in alpha and none of it is concrete as of yet and I only make these suggestions in the hopes of you kind gentlemen and ladies to see this and to know I mean no disrespect in any way when speaking about the game which I've sunk many hours into and wish to sink more and more. But as I said I play mainly melee classes and with the small bugs here and there and Battle Fatigue it makes the life of a melee main hard and forces many to farm almost endlessly or it obstructs the purpose of a tank or a melee class like the Slayer. I hope you take into consideration the ideas mentioned and see that there are other/better ways to deal with the problem of gold inflation. Hope I was helpful and best of luck with the continuation of the project as I'm excited to see what lies ahead in the next chapter of Return of Reckoning.

[ursvamp]

if you guys have a fetish for money/time sink, then put a higher tax for AH but leave the pugs alone...

[BrockRiefenstahl]

This what Kov wrote, is what i tied to say.
He is better in writing about such a topic in a more objective way Thanks

[normanis]

i think on live was like that, if u kill players with batle fatigue. than u get onle 1xp and 1 rr. and got messige that player have already died and u got lesser reward. i just agree with that.
i think no need give purple and epic drops in pvp . because again remember gankers will farm all lowbies.
also batlefatigue in sc is weird without lesser reward to who kill u second time.

[nibbles]

To my understanding the aim of the server is to bring the game back to what 'live' was, we have been told this right from the start.
That includes having to pay the healer on for your mistakes.
Good thing as it adds to the immersion etc. (but, let’s hope the devs don’t go right down to Camelot and bring in gravestones)
For those who only do pvp, maybe add in a repeatable quest for pk x players’ rewards a few bit coin would encourage orvr to include pk and not just pve the keep doors (mainly lower tiers)
Any way keep up the good work devs, you’re on the right track.

[noisestorm]

PK quests? But dont we have them already?

[BrockRiefenstahl]

To my understanding the aim of the server is to bring the game back to what 'live' was, we have been told this right from the start.
That includes having to pay the healer on for your mistakes.
Good thing as it adds to the immersion etc. (but, let’s hope the devs don’t go right down to Camelot and bring in gravestones)
For those who only do pvp, maybe add in a repeatable quest for pk x players’ rewards a few bit coin would encourage orvr to include pk and not just pve the keep doors (mainly lower tiers)
Any way keep up the good work devs, you’re on the right track.

Not sure if serious, as far as I know, even on live in the end they got rid of it.

+ another example. Keep fights in T2 will not contain any sort of action beside ranges shooting up and ranges shooting down. Because if melees want to do something and jump down, they prolly dont get rezzed anymore. This move will make you think twice to try to have "some fun" beside, well lets just stand here andwait 20 minutes until they break inside the gate, (and if the attackers are much more) after the breakthrough, the the defenders (including the melees who could not even participate till now) are OVERRUN... Wow, must be fun... For me it really looks like this was an unfinished thought-through bad-move. And dont tell me we need a "Goldsink" because the flippers and cheaters are not affected at all! (they have thousands if not 10k's of gold). This move reminds me on RL politics/bankster moves. In the end the workin citizens are the one who pay the **** bills with their taxes. Think about it, from this perspective.


Edit: Why not insert some sort of Tax, but not an ordinary tax rather than a "Rich" tax.
This means ordinary players pay a little fee for their Auctions. Players with thousands of gold pay exponentially more.
Or better: to avoid dirty tricks like I" bringmy gold somewhere save and make other accounts" --> just make it so- the more gold you hoard (yeah keep the money flowing) the less you get from drops or quests.

As far as I understood the Devs point, they want the game to keep it fun (they also think grinding out pve isnt fun)
This implied to me, their goal is, that we should have enough gold for a "living", on the otherside, they want to avoid Monopolist Rockefellers and consorts.(who have the power to control all other players with their nutty prices). So they should start with the root and not cut the "real players"/"non 24/7 grinders", instead they should cut at the purse of Monopoly-Stock Market manipulators, those are the toxic .... in every MMO! This is Warhammer and not Stock-Market simulator 2.0

[Xunleashed]

An additional gold sink that increases the already high risk on roaming in small numbers/solo, encouraging people to play safe in the zerg or queue sc instead of playing orvr.

Please no.

[Yaliskah]

I understand your concern about this implementation. I just would like to remind you :

- This functionnality is very recent, so test it, as we do ( we play too ). Test it deeply and wait some days before reacting and give your impressions. The exemple i have in mind is the ability power of keep lords. Too strong in the beginning and refined after some days. We will do the same if we see there is a real issue with this.

- We have no other solution than implement it and let you test for a certain amount of time to see if this functionnality is efficient or not. Things can change as often as needed to find a balanced situation.

- So many things have to be done and we can't do everything perfect in the first shot ( off server wasn't perfect after 8 years), if we were doing everything perfect in the first shot, you could call us Gods (or not. God's creation isn't perfect too... ...and he hasn't fixed anything...).

- As some of you noticed, the actual big construction site is the ORvR. Many changes will comes in the next days. This Battle Fatigue is one of the very first élements.



Now my conclusion.

On live, you were spending real money and playing with imposed changes, and you hadn't your word to say. Here you have this luck we are taking consideration of your concerns. Do the same, take consideration of ours.

You give us 0 chances guys. ZERO. How are we supposed to move on if everytime we bring something new your fisrt word is "NO" ?

You want the perfect War server? We can't do it. Near perfection? It takes time. A lot of time. More than saying "NO", more than 8 years if i refer to official one (guys were paid, professionnal, working on at least 8h/day on this, more than us).

So please, begin with a "LET SEE THIS", take some time and well, let discuss about calmly. Beginning a discussion after less than 3 hours about it, is a bit hot blooded don't you think? Have you a crystal ball to see how this will impact the game? If yes, well i'm happy. You still here which means our futur is shiny. If not not, well, give this a chance.

I won't hide behind a "this is alpha stage". You perfectly know it is. You choose to act as if it wasn't, hoping it isn't. Things have to be tested and refinned. Always.

If we start to change instantly because some of you say "NO", tomorrow, we will nerf an entire faction, set everybody 40/80 on character creation, auto-rez, and rate x20.

Now for the little story, i was against BFB system, prefering a Gear drop system on kill (5% to lose 1 piece of equiped stuff and give it to the killers), but 100% of the team was against this excellent idea.
Thank them to never follow my suggestions.

[Combi]

This whining is pointless.
1.RvR wounds debuff is 3 minutes, and only applies if you don't get a rez. If you respawn it will wear off soon enough to play on equal terms again.
2. there's no debuff in scenarios.
3. pve is 15 mins, but if you have problems against mobs with 90% health, then just quit the game and play solitaire.