The Magus/engi buff

[Halhammer]

1. Engineers healing turret, it's pretty ridiculous that a class can have both supreme range and the ability to heal one self (does it heal group players as well?). The Magus has no such complementary feature. They can basically stand on top of the castle with bombard turrets, healing themselves, while picking off single targets more then 100 feet away. I think this should simply be got rid of.

One keg isn't really makin much of a difference with 300 HP per tick. If you're standing in a sea of kegs at a keep defence, then yea but that's what engis are made for - hold def positions.

2. Engineer Turrets do not follow Line of Sight rules. I keep getting attacked through walls by the turrets and since they are instant shots, any LOS you give them you will get a FULL attack from the turret even though you just stepped inside a door, or into their range for a brief second. The bullets will follow you through walls, doors, and any other obstacle.

Ever heard of squig pets? At least you can run out of range from a turret.

[Gobtar]

To be fair, most DPS that get pressured will detaunt, and won't be attacking whatever is pressuring them unless it is to CC. Most BWs will SDR (if specced), and WH, regardless of the piddly damage they take from backlash.

Most dps can continue attacking while they are being attacked without losing damage to setbacks in cast times and without screwing up their rotations, hell mdps will just aoe detaunt and assist a target, there is no aoe detaunt for rpds, there is no escape when you are under pressure unless teammates save you, you can detaunt 1 guy and eat full damage from everyone else and also have to stop attacking.

Those are major drawbacks.

I don't wish to be contrarian for the sake of contrary, SWs and SHs do get AoE Detaunts (part of Run away is a 50% Challange effect and SWs have to slot a tactic), but I see your point. The thing is, if you get surprised by a melee train, you only have a couple GCDs before you are dead, in that time you can detaunt, aoe Root, cleanse and M2, doublepot. All of these things have no fear of backlash. As I am sure you are aware if a BW/Sorc is survive 5 or 6 GCDs in either the tank is able to get to them and healers can focus heal.

If specced BWs can obviously use withering heat and SDR at risk of back lash, backlash even if it does a chunk of your health wont stop you from using the tools needed to live. Sorcs have no such on-the-go CC.

[Specialpatrol]

- Sorcs/BWs are capable of high single target and AoE damage, but are also draining their own HP while putting out max damage, and do not have a ton of effective CC. Having BWs in your group means youre needing to focus more heals on them instead of healing tanks and melees

I just want to intervene to comment on this.

Backlash is not a drawback. We've known this for years. It's absorbed into the group heal when they're casting, and when they're under pressure they're not going to cast anything that would increase that pressure on them by triggering a backlash.

If you want to justify the BW/Sorc mechanic, which remains one of the most effective in the game, commenting on relative mobility and lack of CC is fine.

It seems like you're just assuming that BWs/Sorcs always have a magical access to group heals. That's is far from the case. And no, I'm not just talking about when you go solo. When in pug scenarios and/or public warbands the reliability of a heal is far from given.

And then the mechanic most definitely becomes a drawback. Add to this a limited amount of CC abilities.

And no matter how you view it, the high dps-classes (those capable of high numbers in both single target and aoe) in this game were all designed with a drawback-mechanic (self-explosion on BWs/Sorcs and more dmg taken on Slayers/Choppas). You can't really make the same argument on Maguses and Engineers. Yet they're now capable of doing much of the same damage in both single target and aoe. And with more CC abilities available.

EDIT: And more range, of course.

[Penril]

It seems like you're just assuming that BWs/Sorcs always have a magical access to group heals. That's is far from the case. And no, I'm not just talking about when you go solo. When in pug scenarios and/or public warbands the reliability of a heal is far from given.

And then the mechanic most definitely becomes a drawback. Add to this a limited amount of CC abilities.

Game is not balanced around solo/pug play.

[peterthepan3]

- Sorcs/BWs are capable of high single target and AoE damage, but are also draining their own HP while putting out max damage, and do not have a ton of effective CC. Having BWs in your group means youre needing to focus more heals on them instead of healing tanks and melees

I just want to intervene to comment on this.

Backlash is not a drawback. We've known this for years. It's absorbed into the group heal when they're casting, and when they're under pressure they're not going to cast anything that would increase that pressure on them by triggering a backlash.

If you want to justify the BW/Sorc mechanic, which remains one of the most effective in the game, commenting on relative mobility and lack of CC is fine.

It seems like you're just assuming that BWs/Sorcs always have a magical access to group heals. That's is far from the case. And no, I'm not just talking about when you go solo. When in pug scenarios and/or public warbands the reliability of a heal is far from given.

And then the mechanic most definitely becomes a drawback. Add to this a limited amount of CC abilities.

And no matter how you view it, the high dps-classes (those capable of high numbers in bout single target and aoe) in this game were all designed with a drawback-mechanic (self-explosion on BWs/Sorcs and more dmg taken on Slayers/Choppas). You can't really make the same argument on Maguses and Engineers. Yet they're now capable of doing much of the same damage in both single target and aoe. And with more CC abilities available.

1. When talking about balancing classes and gameplay, it is done so assuming said gameplay is competitive, i.e. you are playing with a group, with healers, with tanks - aka playing to the best of your abilities. In such situations, the sorc/bw mechanic is a non-entity.
2. Same damage in single target and AOE? Are you for real? xDD

[Specialpatrol]

It seems like you're just assuming that BWs/Sorcs always have a magical access to group heals. That's is far from the case. And no, I'm not just talking about when you go solo. When in pug scenarios and/or public warbands the reliability of a heal is far from given.

And then the mechanic most definitely becomes a drawback. Add to this a limited amount of CC abilities.

Game is not balanced around solo/pug play.

Oh it isn't?

Tell that to the numerous pug warbands running around every night.

What a very silly argument, indeed.

[bloodi]

If specced BWs can obviously use withering heat and SDR at risk of back lash, backlash even if it does a chunk of your health wont stop you from using the tools needed to live. Sorcs have no such on-the-go CC.

Not only sorcs have such on the go cc. Artic Blast, you dont even need to spec it but there is also the fact that DoK covenants are applying to every ranged skill in the game, so if there is dok running it all your skills have a chance to snare.

But lets leave it, i just wanted to point out that there is indeed major drawbacks to the Bw/Sorc mechanic, it just irks me when people only talks about the advantages something gives without mentioning the penalties.

[ToXoS]

No Magus or Engies can deal as much damage as a Sorc/BW, both AoE or ST.
Please stop saying that kind of bullshit.
Magus and engies have a drawback, it is called mobility.
This game is ALL about mobility.
Ever heard of the kiting meta?

[Specialpatrol]

1. When talking about balancing classes and gameplay, it is done so assuming said gameplay is competitive, i.e. you are playing with a group, with healers, with tanks - aka playing to the best of your abilities. In such situations, the sorc/bw mechanic is a non-entity.
2. Same damage in single target and AOE? Are you for real? xDD

1: If the BW/Sorc mechanic is such a non-entity, then why not simply remove it? I'd be down with that.

2: Read more carefully. I said "much of the same" - but with no drawbacks and more CC.

[Bluestreak2k5]

1. Engineers healing turret, it's pretty ridiculous that a class can have both supreme range and the ability to heal one self (does it heal group players as well?). The Magus has no such complementary feature. They can basically stand on top of the castle with bombard turrets, healing themselves, while picking off single targets more then 100 feet away. I think this should simply be got rid of.

One keg isn't really makin much of a difference with 300 HP per tick. If you're standing in a sea of kegs at a keep defence, then yea but that's what engis are made for - hold def positions.

2. Engineer Turrets do not follow Line of Sight rules. I keep getting attacked through walls by the turrets and since they are instant shots, any LOS you give them you will get a FULL attack from the turret even though you just stepped inside a door, or into their range for a brief second. The bullets will follow you through walls, doors, and any other obstacle.

Ever heard of squig pets? At least you can run out of range from a turret.

Did you even read my post? I mean seriously.... The Magus has no such abilities to hold the line, and as you say when trying to take a keep, 5 or 10 healing turrets in a group make it that much more impossible. Either give maguses the same ability or remove it from Engineers.

Not once they have fired.... which if you actually read my post what my entire point. Specifically because all the abilities are instant cast, the turrets as soon as they have LOS on you, no matter you do you will get hit with a full barrage. Pretty much all Instant cast abilities work the same way. Now since you extended the range of these instant cast turrets you can get 3 or 4 turrets all sending bullets to you and even if you get out 200 ft from them after being 60Ft when they fired, they will still follow you to 200ft.

And oh the irony of complaining about squigs when Order have White lions... lmao. Order just wants everything handed to them on a silver platter all the time.