Changelog 08/11/16

[Razid1987]

Oh, okay. Not good :/

But how do you feel about the "tankiness" of the ram? Is it suppose to get destroyed in about 2 mins? Our number 3 ram lost about 1% hp each second, lol.

[Azarael]

Is it ranged fire that's doing it?

[Razid1987]

I'm not really sure: There was a lot going on with many BWs and Engis standing on the wall, doing their thing (Rain of Fire and Napalm etc).
Someone in the guild said it was maybe the melee either popping in and out of the keep door and just AoEing, or just AoEing through the door (Not sure that's even possible anymore?).
Others seems to think there was a lot of damage from the AoE cannons.

But then again, what was killing us, wasn't necessarily what was killing the rams, so really hard to tell.

[Glorian]

Is it ranged fire that's doing it?

Not on Ram but maybe a point to check. We were just attacking destro keep with bugged ram when a WL send his pet up the ramparts to kill the destro cannon. Which according to some destros the pet did in 8 secs.

Melee has its boost on Siege equipment.
Have WL Pets this damage too, and should they have it?
Because these cats can climb fortress walls instantly.

[Dabbart]

3min is a long time for a Ram to be honest. I could be wrong, but isn't ram supposedly ramped up in STR so that it theoretically should take 5%+ per swing higher for perfect? Thats 20swings. At even 10s per swing, that's only 3min 20s. Or 1 ram per 80% of door health...

Just trying to classify what the actual issue is.

[Razid1987]

Well, I don't know what the issue is, but as it is now, something is seriously wrong - Either the damage of the ram is like 10% of what it should be, or it's dying way too fast.

It took only 5 to 10% hp off the outer door PER ram, not per swing. And that was despite we kept them alive for 2-3 mins.

[Dabbart]

Aye, but more info is needed to make an actual assertion as to the problem. Ie, how many swings? If it it 10% damage over 2 swings, then damage is fine, tankiness is fine, it's the CD bug. If it swung 15 times over those 3min, with the bug only truly affecting the time of the last few, then damage might be the real issue.

Also, was the ram full? And did you have cannons targeting theirs to try and keep said Ram alive? Rams now take bunches of damage from Melee, so you do need to try and ensure people aren't popping in and out of the door to drop DPS on it. Did the Ram show up at 100% health? You can attack it before it is set.

Just saying the ram lasted for 3min at the door doesn't actually provide much. And lastly... I don't know the purpose of those screen shots... You asked in region for someone to bring rams. A, doesn't mean they were PUGs. A 6man coulda brought it to you. And B, so what? Obviously 1 WB wont be able to accomplish everything, and so you will need to coordinate over the chat channels...

[Razid1987]

Aye, but more info is needed to make an actual assertion as to the problem. Ie, how many swings?

I don't know. Hard to tell, since the ram bugged out and people were going in and out all the time. We could hardly get it to work. A guess? Maybe 5-7 swings with 1-3 persons / ram. So in other words, it's very buggy.

If it it 10% damage over 2 swings, then damage is fine, tankiness is fine, it's the CD bug. If it swung 15 times over those 3min, with the bug only truly affecting the time of the last few, then damage might be the real issue.

Indeed. I'm just explaining what we experienced. Feedback.

Also, was the ram full?

To start with, yeah. But then people had to leave after every single swing, as I mentioned previously.

And did you have cannons targeting theirs to try and keep said Ram alive?

Of course - We kept their cannons destroyed, but it stilled died, somehow.

Rams now take bunches of damage from Melee, so you do need to try and ensure people aren't popping in and out of the door to drop DPS on it.

Well, we tried. But really kinda hard to prevent them from doing that entirely with all the bombardment from the walls, moral pushes from the door itself as well as the damage from the oil, which also takes some time to get down.

Did the Ram show up at 100% health? You can attack it before it is set.

Yes. I know

Just saying the ram lasted for 3min at the door doesn't actually provide much.

Then it's good I provided more than just that, in my original comment. The point is just that I literally don't know what destroyed the ram, and honestly, it's not my responsibility to know every single answer here. I gave as much information as I could aquire from the situation. I'm just trying to help out.

And lastly... I don't know the purpose of those screen shots... You asked in region for someone to bring rams. A, doesn't mean they were PUGs. A 6man coulda brought it to you.

It's to showcase the situation. What 6-man? I saw the guy who brought the ram. It WAS a pug. And no, it doesn't mean that, but since we didn't see pretty much any organised destro groups (let alone WBs) in the entire zone today (or the whole week for that matter).

And B, so what? Obviously 1 WB wont be able to accomplish everything, and so you will need to coordinate over the chat channels...

Yeah, and that's why we asked for help. The very same people (Us + pugs) did everything in DW prior to the keep. And we were all the destro players who were in the zone (As far as I know). If we couldn't take the keep together, then no one could, because there were no one else around. And we couldn't either, so I guess it didn't make much difference by the end, anyways.
I'm just saying, it's not very fun to sit there, holding someone in the keep, while basically just waiting, but it's what the current system forces you to do atm.

[Dabbart]

And I agree entirely with the end of your post. There needs to be some sort of reason for the defenders to HAVE to fight at some point. That your attack was stalled due to a bug sucks. I believe everyone has, since the new orvr system I have had dozens. As a lot probably have.

My bad bro. I typed these on my phone on the bus. It was more of a general list of information that would be helpful or I feel would narrow the scope of "issue". I didnt mean to imply any negative upon you by my previous post. But thanks for laying it out there. You said it well, provide feedback. The more non-opinion based info you can provide the better any response or alteration will be.

I still believe the point that communication and cooperation across the entire lake from pugs to 6mans to WBs to alliances should be standard holds though. Yea. You had to ask for help. I don't see your point.

[Razid1987]

No worries. I understand.

Well, my point is, that having a system where you have to rely on pugs, isn't very great. Pugs can be pretty random in their behavior. Whether their leader is vocal in the rvr-chat, if he cooperates, if he kicks afkers, if the wb has solo-roamers in it, or if the leader even wants to help with the campaign, or rather just run around and do whatever, farming renown etc. Is he active, or is he just passive, just following others? Does he even know if he's the leader?
It's very unreliable. So having to rely on that is, well, all over the place.

We usually get our WBs together from the entire alliance. The only people missing from your list, are other guilds and 6-mans, which are (as far as I know) pretty absent from the RvR lakes atm. I see a few members from some orvr destro guilds (no one mentioned, no one forgotten), but i think they are actually just with the pugs, most of the time.

But yes, I agree there should be communicating across it all. But from communication, to actually having to rely on these people for locking a zone, every single time, with no exception? No thanks.