Changelog 15/11/16

[vouzou]

If you don't have mixed stats there is no need to change between Tenacity and Vitality cause you lose a lot of healing and with no Str to provides you the 50% 3 times stackable willpower buff from Vitality it is waste of time. Just stay on Tenacity and heal.

How it's implemented is as an "add from", so if you have 500 Willpower from items, the following happens:

Covenant of Vitality: Str from items +500, Willpower item bonus negated
Proc of Soul Willpower: (Str from items / 2) added for every stack, so +750 Willpower with 3 stacks

In other words, it doesn't matter where your Willpower or Strength are distributed - everything works in the same way, like on RP/Zeal.

I agree but still i will be at -500 willpower when i am at vitality and cause of lack of strength on my current gear the bonus i get is +0. When on small scale that wont be so much a problem but on big scales RvR i will still be the backline healer that will stay on Tenacity to heal because changing Coventants gives me bigger disadvantage than the -50% armour.
Thats why i believe the sets for DoK Wp must redisign for stats term.
If at least i get 250 willpower half the willpower i loose when changing from Tenacity to vitality that will be a good start for balancing the healing side of DoK/WP.

Korthian DoK of Phalanx

[Sigimund]

There can be no gaps in the healing. Waiting to get in melee range of the perfect lifetap donor is not acceptable. You have to be able to keep up the flow with whatever is available.

The only indefensible abilities are lifetaps in lifetap stance and in that mode they do very little damage.

[Azarael]

I think you're not getting what I'm saying. It doesn't matter whether you stack Willpower or Strength. The conversions from prayers mean that your Willpower from items counts as Strength from items, so the Soul Willpower proc will read that Willpower from items as well as your Strength from items and give you a value based on both. If it does not, then bugtracker it with proof.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm also concerned with their lifetaps being undefendable. I understand it on Rend Soul/Divine Assault since you can interrupt those anyway with taunt or other skills. However I don't think SR/TE should be undefendable since they are spammable and instant. Being undefendable basically leaves you with no way to countering them except for CC, but immunities make this harder than it sounds.

I think they kinda need to be undefendble, healing from 5 feet range of the oposition is allready risky enough, you get pelted by rdps melee dps, CC permasnares etz. This was the main reason melee healing didn't work in the first place. If you add the element of chance to be parried/blocked aswell I think we're back at square one imo. The damage of those skills were reduced due to the attacks being undefendble as far as I understand.

But now you are creating a situation where every melee healer can simply hurr-durr any target he wants. Imo the melee healer should also be assisting main target since that target is generally a prio target (=less parry and block to begin with) and is debuffed by dps and tanks (even less change for block and parry). I can understand for the sake of consistency that toughness and armour are ignored, but you are basically ignoring what tanks have to spec 40 of their their renown points in which makes it OP.[/quote]

If it's not consistant people will just go to backline healing again. And nothing has changed other then the class got a armor nerf. I don't really buy your argument that tanks wasted renown points either, you didn't use these stats before to mitigrate healing. So why should you now? You use the defensive stats to mitigrate guard damage and make yourself a consistant tank. While WP/DoK put emself in very harms way and being much much more receptive to CC and will take more dmg by being on melee frontline. They are getting rewarded by consistant and good healing for doing so now and thats what didn't work with the builds before.

[Armagdon]

As someone who didn't really try DpsWP in group, we tried doing 6man yesterday with setup 2/2/2, when we faced other premades it was usually having a Dps DoK + 2healers in group. Though am not sure if they are just testing the new spec out but it really is so powerful because of the instant heal debuff plus the procs, fighting against those kind of groups is really tough because it doesn't really matter if you CC the healers, they will get healed by the dps dok(plus basically everyone gets rekt by the procs).

Imo, the heal debuff of a DoK should have gotten nerfed rather than giving order almost the same thing, i think now its primary to use a dps DoK/WP in a competitive fights.

[Luth]

I share the same opinion on incoming heal debuffs coming from DD healers.
But we shouldn't forget that the the .ab ex mode is not mandatory atm; high likely there are premades with, for instance, 1x ab ex DD WP/dok and 2x non-ab ex healbot WP/dok.

[Azarael]

The above is an annoying problem, and will likely force a period of mandatory .ex for every DoK/WP in the game.

[braendir]

only one evening is not enough for have a clear view about this changes but
what i saw make me really fear for the future

i played in PREMADE against PUG sc with wp "live stance" and the less i can say is in PUG sc new stance don't look effective
dok/wp are now in PUG sc totally useless

the problem here is how make wp/dok viable in PUG without be overpowered in PREMADE and i'm not sure that will be possible

i'm really afraid about what i said in my frist post
"this change will target PUG tacitly reinforce PREMADE"

not the good way for this game a least for the major part of the commmunity i guess

try balance 3 playstyle healer melee healer and DPS
and PUG / PREMADE viability
and SC and RVR
at the same time is for me impossible but the attempt was commendable

but i'm agree one evening of test is not enough

[zumos2]

I share the same opinion on incoming heal debuffs coming from DD healers.
But we shouldn't forget that the the .ab ex mode is not mandatory atm; high likely there are premades with, for instance, 1x ab ex DD WP/dok and 2x non-ab ex healbot WP/dok.

I strongly disagree with this. IF you get the option to play as a dps as a healer, you should be a competetive dps as well, which also includes a heal debuff. If you dont want dps healers to be viable then remove the dps trees and give them 3 heal trees.

[Luth]

I share the same opinion on incoming heal debuffs coming from DD healers.
But we shouldn't forget that the the .ab ex mode is not mandatory atm; high likely there are premades with, for instance, 1x ab ex DD WP/dok and 2x non-ab ex healbot WP/dok.

I strongly disagree with this. IF you get the option to play as a dps as a healer, you should be a competetive dps as well, which also includes a heal debuff. If you dont want dps healers to be viable then remove the dps trees and give them 3 heal trees.

I know that you disagree with this and i didn't write that "DPS healers" shouldn't be viable (actually a very subjective term). I already posted my opinion here and i'm not interested in discussing this in the patchnotes.