Changelog 17/11/16

[catholicism198]

Does dropping "undefendable" mean that ranged heals will be "disruptable?"
Ranged heals are magic, magic can be disrupted, so will ranged heals be susceptible to disrupts?

[Thelen]

Does dropping "undefendable" mean that ranged heals will be "disruptable?"
Ranged heals are magic, magic can be disrupted, so will ranged heals be susceptible to disrupts?

Ranged lifetaps are already able to be disrupted.

[Sigimund]

Does dropping "undefendable" mean that ranged heals will be "disruptable?"
Ranged heals are magic, magic can be disrupted, so will ranged heals be susceptible to disrupts?

Ranged lifetaps are already able to be disrupted.

My AM was Vaul long before the recent changes. 100ft and spirit damage opens up a lot of options that melee healing does not have. Even then, the mechanic now grants 20% strikethrough to abilities like Balance Essence.

[catholicism198]

Does dropping "undefendable" mean that ranged heals will be "disruptable?"
Ranged heals are magic, magic can be disrupted, so will ranged heals be susceptible to disrupts?

Ranged lifetaps are already able to be disrupted.

I wasn't talking about life taps.

[Valfaros]

After some tests today with my meele dps dok and a friend which had a heal dok (now doing a pause from the game) I have following to say: "your changes are way over the top." It nearly enforces you to play as meele dok if you want to heal because of this overly crazy armor debuff.
Transfer essence now heals 1.2k (atm with only 9 points in sacrifice and without the additional tactic) and Rend Sould 1.8k per hit. Looks extremly stong is extremly strong.
Never liked the sacrifice playstyle before and this change even enforces more Transfer essence spam. Instead of having a unkillable healmonster in the back you have now one in the front (which can heal even more) not sure if I like that...

Making the heal from transfer essence and rend soul unavoidable+ignors mitigations is a good thing and was needed and makes it more reliable. Making it useless against absorb is still bad and shouldn't be the case. Lower the heal, it's not okay that you can outperform every other healer while doing dmg.

I don't really like the change to torture covenant. Dps dok needed a speedboost or a gapcloser because he could be sillily kited by everybody and had without odjira (was that the name) no chance to ever catch up. If I'm not mistaken only sigmapriest got a speedbuff good for them (devs why?). While I think the dps buff to sigmapriest is over the top (already saw multiple top sigmars after one day of implementation) the dmg buff to dok was not needed (atleast not that strong) esp. with upcomming equipments in mind.

Third a free aoe detaunt while under the effect of CoV (and whatever sigmars equiv. is) is not that clever. There is a aoe detaunt tactic in the torture tree. If the intention was to make this tactic useless and the torture tree less competitive then you accomplished your mission. Both trees sacrifice and torture were quite balanced between each other but with the change you shift the importance of the mastery trees to the used covenant.

+Funny addition nice to loose your soulessence now while you are infight super helpfull when getting kitted so you actually managed to weaken the dok against what was already his weakest point.
Actually I don't like that -5 SE over time at all. If you get ap drained which can happen quite often you will stand there compleatly naked in no time. No AP no SE cool no buttons to press now autoattack afk yay...^^

Sorry to be salty here but I'm not really hearing any good response from our heal doks either. They don't really like to get forced to play their favorite class differently. I mean most of them played it like that for years, that's why they play here they actually like the playstyle.
The heal of dok's will still be op with this change (I think even stronger than ever now) just the playstyle is compleatly different now. What's the point in doing it then. Upset the excisting ones, force them play something they don't want to. I don't know guys but it's your server.

[peterthepan3]

I don't really like the change to torture covenant. Dps dok needed a speedboost or a gapcloser because he could be sillily kited by everybody and had without odjira (was that the name) no chance to ever catch up. If I'm not mistaken only sigmapriest got a speedbuff good for them (devs why?). While I think the dps buff to sigmapriest is over the top (already saw multiple top sigmars after one day of implementation) the dmg buff to dok was not needed (atleast not that strong) esp. with upcomming equipments in mind.

The reason why Wrath WPs got a speed increase is because DoK'S Celerity Cov can snare, and has a huge chance of proccing with the correct tactics/fact that dok has dual wield.
Topping scenario damage boards does not reflect the viability of a class or spec, as has been repeated ad nauseam.
The damage buff to Wrath WPs was most definitely needed as they were a complete and utter joke before.

Third a free aoe detaunt while under the effect of CoV (and whatever sigmars equiv. is) is not that clever. There is a aoe detaunt tactic in the torture tree. If the intention was to make this tactic useless and the torture tree less competitive then you accomplished your mission. Both trees sacrifice and torture were quite balanced between each other but with the change you shift the importance of the mastery trees to the used covenant.

+Funny addition nice to loose your soulessence now while you are infight super helpfull when getting kitted so you actually managed to weaken the dok against what was already his weakest point.
Actually I don't like that -5 SE over time at all. If you get ap drained which can happen quite often you will stand there compleatly naked in no time. No AP no SE cool no buttons to press now autoattack afk yay...^^

The DPS DOK/WP mechanic needs to have a drawback: Sorc/BW has a chance to damage themselves; Slayer/Choppa has weakened armor/resistances; Magus/Engi requires you to be stationary. The DOK/WP DPS trees should be counterable in some way, and this is via careful snaring/kiting/CC usage - as it should be. The class has always been weak against ranged comps, but that is needed so as to balance the fact that when a DPS DOK/WP actually is in range, it is a nightmare - lest it become imbalanced and OP. No one class/comp should trump all others.

Sorry to be salty here but I'm not really hearing any good response from our heal doks either. They don't really like to get forced to play their favorite class differently. I mean most of them played it like that for years, that's why they play here they actually like the playstyle.
The heal of dok's will still be op with this change (I think even stronger than ever now) just the playstyle is compleatly different now. What's the point in doing it then. Upset the excisting ones, force them play something they don't want to. I don't know guys but it's your server.

I can understand where your friends are coming from, but playing class X for Y amount of years doesn't negate from class X being OP/too easy with minimal risk for maximum profit. The heal WP/DOK was incredibly easy to use and very powerful (hence why certain people played that and excelled, yet can't excel with other classes).

Also - you ought to bear in mind that these changes are experimental and subject to feedback. They aren't set in stone, and the more people who test it out and get back to the devs with accurate, empirically-verifiable feedback, the better.

[Lesnoj]

I hope that GM team will realize soon, how DOKs are unbalanced, mostly its just enoght to look at the scenario rating and statistics. Doks are on top of dd and heal, including that u need like 5 or more ppl to kill one dok with a guard. Completly unbalanced situation becomes when 3-4 doks log in to scen, (which is very often after the patch) with 3-4 tanks and a side healers. Scenarios mostly ends 0-500 (0 order).

[Natherul]

I hope that GM team will realize soon, how DOKs are unbalanced, mostly its just enoght to look at the scenario rating and statistics. Doks are on top of dd and heal, including that u need like 5 or more ppl to kill one dok with a guard. Completly unbalanced situation becomes when 3-4 doks log in to scen, (which is very often after the patch) with 3-4 tanks and a side healers. Scenarios mostly ends 0-500 (0 order).

First off the GM team have nothing to do with balance changes or changes in general. Also I´ve seen some pretty decently balanced fights, it depends on when you play as the playerbase is sadly not balanced between order and destro all the time.

[Eltbus]

Doks are on top of dd and heal, including that u need like 5 or more ppl to kill one dok with a guard.

I can't agree with that - it's totally dependent on who you're playing against, and the other people on your side. As it should be.

1) without a second healer you can't keep a group up, and if you do have one and he goes down then you better get him back up again or you're toast, so the tactic against meleheal DoK seems to me: get the backline healer first, then take the DoK.

2) you just don't do that much damage, I've topped sc damage list once, because there were no really competent DD's and I had a succession of nice squishy targets to whack. My str in meleeheal mode is curently about 750. Maybe if I get it up to 1000 i'll start topping out.

3) a couple of good ranged dps will do you in, no worries. SW and BW generally kick my ass, especially if any half decent tank cc's me.

We're still only a couple of days in, but my perception is the meleeheal DoK is powerful, but far from unstoppable. My best success has been with a DPS BO guarding me, but he was a very good player, so I think that was more him than me. And we still went down when the other healer in the party got caught. A really high spec rr / gear DoK would be very tough (I'm still only 38/34 in Ruin), but surely any top end player should be tough to beat?