Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?

[Ugle]

That would probably help a lot on dmg output itself, maybe tie it to VoN, no cd when VoN is active, else it would be blatantly OP.
But it dosen't really matter as you will be dead before being able to use it (KD/swarmwd by mdps/bodyblocked).
Ofc you need to utilize rdps capabilities even in a melee spec. That is the entire point of the class imo. Thats why I think dual wield is the wrong track, not to mention the unrealistic development requirements of that track.

And to nuance the "np to cap str" point I made earlier: cap as in get it to a decent level (above 900). To get to this lvl and also getting a respectable lvl of ws (500+), you have to use instinctive aim, and your defences hurt a lot in that regard.

[Morf]

That would probably help a lot on dmg output itself, maybe tie it to VoN, no cd when VoN is active, else it would be blatantly OP.
But it dosen't really matter as you will be dead before being able to use it (KD/swarmwd by mdps/bodyblocked).
Ofc you need to utilize rdps capabilities even in a melee spec. That is the entire point of the class imo. Thats why I think dual wield is the wrong track, not to mention the unrealistic development requirements of that track.

And to nuance the "np to cap str" point I made earlier: cap as in get it to a decent level (above 900). To get to this lvl and also getting a respectable lvl of ws (500+), you have to use instinctive aim, and your defences hurt a lot in that regard.

I dont get it, you speak as if you are playing without a guard and healers ? if so ofc you are going to be swarmed by mdps and killed, in a group a melee sw will be alot harder to kill then every other mdps apart from wl and mara, if you think your defense is so bad as a melee sw fighting melee try a choppa or slayer.
Melee sw isnt that strong but its strength isnt to be in melee all the time, its starting at range going into melee then back out to range etc etc, granted you would say why even go into melee at all and you would be right but if thats how you wana play then thats what u choose to do.
If str is around 900 it isnt at "cap", maybe converting masterful aim bal into str would be a good thing ? and im guessing a fairly easy change to make.
Lastly if you think melee sw is weak try melee sh, you will count yourself lucky as a melee sw

[Ugle]

That would probably help a lot on dmg output itself, maybe tie it to VoN, no cd when VoN is active, else it would be blatantly OP.
But it dosen't really matter as you will be dead before being able to use it (KD/swarmwd by mdps/bodyblocked).
Ofc you need to utilize rdps capabilities even in a melee spec. That is the entire point of the class imo. Thats why I think dual wield is the wrong track, not to mention the unrealistic development requirements of that track.

And to nuance the "np to cap str" point I made earlier: cap as in get it to a decent level (above 900). To get to this lvl and also getting a respectable lvl of ws (500+), you have to use instinctive aim, and your defences hurt a lot in that regard.

I dont get it, you speak as if you are playing without a guard and healers ? if so ofc you are going to be swarmed by mdps and killed, in a group a melee sw will be alot harder to kill then every other mdps apart from wl and mara, if you think your defense is so bad as a melee sw fighting melee try a choppa or slayer.
Melee sw isnt that strong but its strength isnt to be in melee all the time, its starting at range going into melee then back out to range etc etc, granted you would say why even go into melee at all and you would be right but if thats how you wana play then thats what u choose to do.
If str is around 900 it isnt at "cap", maybe converting masterful aim bal into str would be a good thing ? and im guessing a fairly easy change to make.
Lastly if you think melee sw is weak try melee sh, you will count yourself lucky as a melee sw

Not talking about playing solo or without guard and heals, and yes choppa/slayer are squishier, but they have a burst potential not comparable so it makes no sense to compare. Mdps crit regularly for same values as when I have up M2 and VoN, that is the difference in burst

Also played SH extensivly on live, so know they are even worse off, but this is not SH thread, and buffing melee SW does not exclude buffing melee SH.

You can cap str at 1050, but then you are superglasscannon. And adding another mandatory tactic on top of the allready 4 mandatory tactics is not an option imo.

Also AP problems is an issue for more than one class, but if you compare for example WL, they have huge burst despite AP issues, so that comparison is not fair.

Also agree the strenght of melee SW is using range to soften up targets, and saying "why go into melee at all?" is because there is an entire tree dedicated to it, then it should be made viable in some way, variety is gold

There is a few simple changes that can be tested:

• reduce ap cost of grim slash
  remove toughness debuff from instinctive aim (when in Assault stance maybe?)
  aoe detaunt when in Assault stance
  remove CD on brutal Assault (when VoN is up?)

These are specific, easy-to-implement changes with relativly low probability of breaking the class or making it OP

[Mystriss]

Just as a word of caution on Brutal Assault; my melee SW was regularly doing 600-800 non-crit/non-von damage on tanks and 1000+ non-crit/non-von damage on squishies by the upper 70s when most folks were 3-4 years ahead of me toward RR100/top end gear (they'd killed the RR mod by that time so I don't know my opponents RRs for sure.) However, if I had been able to spam BA, even if only under VoN... That's 10 seconds of hammering 1.5-2.5k hits. The squishies woulda been screamin' so loud - specially since I could sling shot over the melee train straight into them.

I suppose it's worth testing, I really need to get on leveling my SW so I can make better suggestions, but its not looking like it's going to happen before I get back from vacation at the end of March >.<

[Jaycub]

Love how heal potions is percieved as counter especially as 99/100 that die are pugs. Hint: they don't even use stat/armor potions

Or the target needs to be unguarded like it is hard to avoid them guarded bl softies that all predetaunt

8.2/10 quality post there

Ya we should balance the game around low level pug play, genius.

[Arteker616]

That would probably help a lot on dmg output itself, maybe tie it to VoN, no cd when VoN is active, else it would be blatantly OP.
But it dosen't really matter as you will be dead before being able to use it (KD/swarmwd by mdps/bodyblocked).
Ofc you need to utilize rdps capabilities even in a melee spec. That is the entire point of the class imo. Thats why I think dual wield is the wrong track, not to mention the unrealistic development requirements of that track.

And to nuance the "np to cap str" point I made earlier: cap as in get it to a decent level (above 900). To get to this lvl and also getting a respectable lvl of ws (500+), you have to use instinctive aim, and your defences hurt a lot in that regard.

I dont get it, you speak as if you are playing without a guard and healers ? if so ofc you are going to be swarmed by mdps and killed, in a group a melee sw will be alot harder to kill then every other mdps apart from wl and mara, if you think your defense is so bad as a melee sw fighting melee try a choppa or slayer.
Melee sw isnt that strong but its strength isnt to be in melee all the time, its starting at range going into melee then back out to range etc etc, granted you would say why even go into melee at all and you would be right but if thats how you wana play then thats what u choose to do.
If str is around 900 it isnt at "cap", maybe converting masterful aim bal into str would be a good thing ? and im guessing a fairly easy change to make.
Lastly if you think melee sw is weak try melee sh, you will count yourself lucky as a melee sw

Not talking about playing solo or without guard and heals, and yes choppa/slayer are squishier, but they have a burst potential not comparable so it makes no sense to compare. Mdps crit regularly for same values as when I have up M2 and VoN, that is the difference in burst

Also played SH extensivly on live, so know they are even worse off, but this is not SH thread, and buffing melee SW does not exclude buffing melee SH.

You can cap str at 1050, but then you are superglasscannon. And adding another mandatory tactic on top of the allready 4 mandatory tactics is not an option imo.

Also AP problems is an issue for more than one class, but if you compare for example WL, they have huge burst despite AP issues, so that comparison is not fair.

Also agree the strenght of melee SW is using range to soften up targets, and saying "why go into melee at all?" is because there is an entire tree dedicated to it, then it should be made viable in some way, variety is gold

There is a few simple changes that can be tested:

• reduce ap cost of grim slash
  remove toughness debuff from instinctive aim (when in Assault stance maybe?)
  aoe detaunt when in Assault stance
  remove CD on brutal Assault (when VoN is up?)

These are specific, easy-to-implement changes with relativly low probability of breaking the class or making it OP

Define comparable. slayers , choppas are mdps without alot of the cc a sw. not just they have to survive alot of incoming fire , praying healers, tanks do their job .. and u moan about their burst in the best dmg wise mobile utility ranged character in game?.

Sws here want every adventage and none of the drawbacks of a mdps seems to me, u want to be able to dish dmg at range but if u want play aswell with a big succes in close quarter . then roll a mdps .

from ur post imo u dont remmeber vevry well at start of the game how good and powerfull was the mele sh to the point most people played it as mdps with ranged abilitys to kite if outnumbered or if u were going to lose . the result?. sh mele three was murdered . and now u want the same in a class wich outperform sh and infact u want to be comparable to mdps while keeping ur shoot arrow safe vital space mode?.

[Toldavf]

• reduce ap cost of grim slash
  remove toughness debuff from instinctive aim (when in Assault stance maybe?)
  aoe detaunt when in Assault stance
  remove CD on brutal Assault (when VoN is up?)

These are specific, easy-to-implement changes with relativly low probability of breaking the class or making it OP

Right i'd like to address what is potentially wrong with these buffs.

1. The grim slash ap reduction firstly it's costed similarly to other melee dps spamables such as pulverise and torment so actually its cost is probably quiet fair. Secondly looking at any rotation that moves into assault stance I would like to spend between 75ap and 100ap on ranged abilities and then another 35ap on being vengful before initiating the assault, added to this the fact that only 2 out of the 6 viable melee skills you have cost more than 25ap would cause me to conclude that it's not the assault tree that actually has ap problems. The abilities in it are fairly costed.

2/3. Removing the toughness debuff and making detaunt aoe in assault. This will make you tougher than a white lion and any sw could benefit from it at any time regardless of if they are assault focused or not. No.

4. A harder hitting torment usable from any position with the added potential boost of that m2? I don't care if that's only once a minute that's totally bonkers amounts of dps. Insta cast 2k spamables seems like a bad idea.

[Deadpoet]

Imho the focus of this discussion should be how we can make going melee on a SW not only effective per se, but also useful to a group, so that a SW who has chosen to invest mastery points deep into assault stance tree can be a desired member of a party.

Rather than buffing abilities or tactics that could benefit a SW that doesnt spend points in Assault, I'd propose to take a good look at assault stance tree:

2 glaring useless abilities stand out: Swift strikes and Sweeping slash, and a tactic that should be unnecessary, Sinister Assault.

it would only take to rework these:

MY PROPOSALS:

1. Make Swift strikes hit for the improved damage regardless of enemy building an ability (other wise the damage is laughable), + each of these hits that crit will give AP to the group.

2. Make Sweeping Slash, probably the most useless ability in any tree any class, apply an initiative or wounds or block/parry debuff. AoE debuff

3. Make Brutal Assault ignore enemy armor no tactic needed, thus freeing one of the 4 mandatory tactic slots for melee.

These changes will only apply to melee dedicated SWs and will benefit the group.

[Azarael]

I would just like to remind you all that you are wasting your time. If you're cool with that, be my guest and continue.

[Ugle]

Was time spent on forums ever not a waste of time? :p