DPS spec tank/healer Hypocrisy

[mekal]

now im relatively new to the server ~2 months but in the short amount of time a couple of friends of mine have already moved on due to how utterly unfriendly this game is to melee dps being 100% at the mercy of allied tanks

i dont 100% agree with with an aura of sorts for guard but some type of change would be great im all for the idea of removing it all together and buffing the active skills as it has proven time and time again that people dislike passives and look much more favorably on active skills how that would relieve some of the dependence i dont know which maybe it shouldnt but for tanks im sure it would be much more enjoyable

...aslong as it runs like it runs the game dies more and more...

this hit the nail on the head stagnation kills

Very true. I threw out the idea a year or two ago of having a "reverse" AAO. So this would mean 1 side gets AAO and the other has a -AAO. This alone (though) wont fix zergs because with the announcement of compression, people care less about renown than they do getting bags. Which all leads me back to my other thread about making RVR a currency grind in which you can modify currency drop by AAO. (So 400% AAO makes currency 4x more likely to drop where as -400 AAO would make it 1/4th as likely to drop)

this is a brilliant idea imho that would help alleviate the cross realm problem


p.s.gatekeeper youre a hero how people fail to notice this snowball effect and branching repercussions is beyond me

[peterthepan3]

So you played a mdps, without a tank, in a pug environment, and have concluded that despite your 'best' efforts, the game is to blame? Brilliant.

We have a Witch hunter soloing and showering in gold and purple bags. If you guys think that zerging you will ever get a bag, I have bad news.
So far I can tell that roaming in small groups, get tons of kills and defending BOs will get you laid.
The new system works way better than the old one, way less random than before. Conqueror medals are easy to farm. Merc/Anni totally doable and competitive. And before you start with the whining, I work, go to the gym, have kids and a pretty enjoyable social life. If you need a group of friends to help you, start looking. When I arrived here I knew no one. Now I have a steady gang of inbred hillbillies with whom I have 2 hours fun each day, when possible

Fair play to this guy ^ no excuses to the rest of you.

[mekal]

So you played a mdps, without a tank, in a pug environment, and have concluded that despite your 'best' efforts, the game is to blame? Brilliant.

not sure if that was directed towards me if so i actually main a tank so easy with your elitist attitude bud itll get you nowehere

[ZewKrwi]

I would say that mdps is same at mercy of alied tank as tank at mercy of mdps. You can play as you want but when you want to be effective and play against best there is one way, witch is fair for me...
When you play with friends you can split classes betwen them and make full group.

Best in this is not good of one player, but team play and fun of playing as group. When ppl play new mmorpg they say there is no team play because you don't need anyone and noone needs you so all play alone... Good in this game is that you need others and they need you

[K13R]

I thought in another game they did a grest job implenting guard as it was actually tracked on the score board under a protection stat. So all the score board warriors could flex in the amount of protection at the end of the match. It promoted use of the ability among pugs as you had tangible evidence of how you affected thr match.

[Nefarian78]

So you played a mdps, without a tank, in a pug environment, and have concluded that despite your 'best' efforts, the game is to blame? Brilliant.

Peter, it's been explained to you already like 15times now. you've clearly never played during the NA times when there are 200 people online which only 75-90 (and 60% of those players are on Order side)

Some players are FORCED to pug because there are not enough people online to even form a sc group, because most of them are in RvR.

The changes to guard that have been suggested wouldn't have a major impact (almost not at all) in premade play while being a great change for players that can't form a premade because the lack of people.

Trying to sweep issues under the rug isn't going to help beacuse casuals exist and are a big chunk of RoR playerbase and like it or not every MMO needs casuals to survive.

The numbers are always going down, and if no one tries to change some things in the game, i don't think RoR can survive for long only having high numbers when a big patch is released and then dropping low every time. Guard surely isn't the only issue this game has but it's worth to take a look at, at least try to change it and see how it goes. it's better than not doing anything at all.

Also, enlighten me why you paint guard like if it's something that requires insane amount of skill to use, because for me it doesn't. Guard is a mostly passive ability in a slow paced game where switching kill targets takes ages compared to other MMOs, i really can't see where the difficulty using guard is, other than having a good positioning.

[th3gatekeeper]

now im relatively new to the server ~2 months but in the short amount of time a couple of friends of mine have already moved on due to how utterly unfriendly this game is to melee dps being 100% at the mercy of allied tanks

how people fail to notice this snowball effect and branching repercussions is beyond me

In all fairness, the reason people fail to notice this is they either
- play EU during high population times OR
- have a group of friends that they can always play with.

I have been in both camps during my time here (worked flex hours or during a week when I take a day off, play and the population easily supports grouping).

I have also had a group of guys who were always on at the same time as I, and made it easy to play whatever I wanted (this was when I was order and made my BW... was tons of fun!)

So, the "why" is because grouping alleviates the issue. For instance, last night we ran a 6 man roam/SC group. The classic 2-2-2. It was fun and dynamic. Tanks calling out guard swaps and challenge rotations etc. It was fun (for the most part). So people get in their minds "why fix what aint broke" because to them, in groups (which are easy for them to form) its not a problem... BUT....

during the NA times when there are 200 people online which only 75-90 (and 60% of those players are on Order side)

Some players are FORCED to pug because there are not enough people online to even form a sc group, because most of them are in RvR.

The changes to guard that have been suggested wouldn't have a major impact (almost not at all) in premade play while being a great change for players that can't form a premade because the lack of people.

Trying to sweep issues under the rug isn't going to help beacuse casuals exist and are a big chunk of RoR playerbase and like it or not every MMO needs casuals to survive.

The numbers are always going down, and if no one tries to change some things in the game, i don't think RoR can survive for long only having high numbers when a big patch is released and then dropping low every time. Guard surely isn't the only issue this game has but it's worth to take a look at, at least try to change it and see how it goes. it's better than not doing anything at all.

Also, enlighten me why you paint guard like if it's something that requires insane amount of skill to use, because for me it doesn't. Guard is a mostly passive ability in a slow paced game where switching kill targets takes ages compared to other MMOs, i really can't see where the difficulty using guard is, other than having a good positioning.

Nefarian nailed it exactly.
- Guard isnt solo/PUG friendly and relies on who is on, for you to be able to play the game. Which leads to...
- players being forced to PUG during low pop times (NA mostly) which hurts the "casual" experience which leads to...
- Numbers going down

And underlying ALL of this is the fact that guard is "mostly passive ability in a slow paced game where switching kill targets takes ages compared to other MMOs, i really can't see where the difficulty using guard is, other than having a good positioning."

As someone who mains tanks in this game (I have 4, 2 on each side in tier 4) who has dabbled in DPS classes as well (to understand the plight of RDPS AND MDPS) I can see why having tanks that use their tools and play their role is CRUCIAL. However even in premade situations, I would STILL rather have guard work as an active ability - akin to using Challenge (damage reducer, active ability with a CD) rather than something passive that I must "swap" by double clicking (which sometimes bugs with latency or lag spike).

Which if guard was turned into a "mini" immaculate defense. I think it would benefit ALL players and MAY even introduce more skill into the game at higher levels of play (forcing coordination of using Guard due to CD/positioning) while making it MUCH more "casual/solo friendly".

[Kali14]

In most games like Diablo, Dragon Age, Drakensang etc...we choose for our main an knight, paladin or any different heavy armoured warrior.

Only in WaR/RoR nobody don't want play them. Ok I want but guarding someone make me sick. I want play tank because he have great defeance and is hard to kill and I like this. But when I start guard anybody and get from him so many damages , all my natural, high defeance is for nothing. So I choose play an melee dps.

I really hate guard.

[K13R]

In most games like Diablo, Dragon Age, Drakensang etc...we choose for our main an knight, paladin or any different heavy armoured warrior.

Only in WaR/RoR nobody don't want play them. Ok I want but guarding someone make me sick. I want play tank because he have great defeance and is hard to kill and I like this. But when I start guard anybody and get from him so many damages , all my natural, high defeance is for nothing. So I choose play an melee dps.

I really hate guard.

Odd i most certainly play NA primetime there are plenty of tanks both sides so much so i stop playing mine. If you are built correctly guard damage is not a factor. I got a bg the reaches near 70% parry i take very little guard damage.


I still stand by 2 things in pug groups why tanks don t guard swap one no scoreboard warrioring as protection isnt tracked and plain old trust in the mdps not to go full retard..

[spikespiegel84]

According to your point of view, we should demolish a core component of this game, which works perfectly fine, and it's easy to get rid of, because of the scarce fun that is causing in N/A times, so that, magically, after making guard an active ability, the N/A time playerbase will boom with new players who will play tank actively and the balance will be achieved. And is gonna be so much better because the pugs will have satisfaction.

I just want to remind everyone what happened last time the devs made changes to satisfy the solo/pug experience, sacrificing the core dynamics of the game.

The best (quality-wise) players I had the luck to meet and fight against left.

I'll be blunt: I'd rather have pugs leave rather than good players. If I wanted to keep farming noobs I would have kept on playing Ultima.

This said....

I really hate guard.

In all honesty, if I was a healer, I wouldn't throw a single HoT on a non guarding tank.