Incredibly long group SC pops

[dansari]

Spoiler:

Well the first thing to do would be to figure out what encourages people to queue for 6v6 scenarios, or figure out what people who could queue for 6v6 but don't, want out of the scenario, without opening up an exploitation. It's tough to incentivize the suboptimal group to go up against the optimal group without the optimal group getting much more of the incentive.

You want to add 25% renown to 6v6 scenarios? The suboptimal group can get more by winning another sc rather than losing an EC.

You want to add more rewards to 6v6 scenarios? The suboptimal group is still going to lose; why try to get through a sc just for the increased rewards?

Any incentive you create ultimately benefits the "better" group the majority of the time, which doesn't fix the issue, it just exacerbates it. Unless you created a scenario where you had balancing conditions, like if you reach 5 deaths for your team you get 10% healing/dmg increase until you kill two players on the opposing team. This way even if you're in a suboptimal group it gives you increased base stats to compete (but you likely still won't win if the balancing is done correctly). I dunno it's still messy and complicated.

hm true ;(

best incentive would be an appereance or multiple. worked in WoW always. worked in GW2 with that shiny wep skins. worked here in T3. Why not in SC's to populate them better?
place would be crouded with ppl goofin around. <:-)
RR increase is for many players almost irrelevant. my proof: forums and dozens of gear moan threads (gief gief gief). No threads about "increase RR gain."

So the better group gets the chance at appearance items and the suboptimal group doesn't. All it takes is for me to think, "welp.. we lost the last three ECs vs the same group.. time to queue for everything." And you can't reward appearance items to both groups because then everyone just floods the 6man scenarios and the best groups on the server farm the pugs (get more emblems, rr, appearance items). Not to say that the best players shouldn't be rewarded for being good!! It just exacerbates the issue of "I'm not going to queue for these 6v6 scs since these other good players are far ahead of me."

[Collateral]

Well I'm afraid Dansari is absolutely right. And that is what I was talking about. Pugs will get farmed by good groups, and other groups will also get farmed by those groups. So the good groups will get their gear in less than a month (which was the case with conq pretty much), and the rest can go twiddle their fingers or something.

[dansari]

Well I'm afraid Dansari is absolutely right.

Don't be afraid; it rarely happens

[ragafury]

yep, and the guys who got there stuff than do something else or role the next char, like always.

life is like that sometimes, if you perform better, you get stuff.

and remember, I'm talking about appereance stuff, not actual gear. so no ingame advantage.

I'm just thinking that the "more RR solution" is by far worse.

many ppl don't play for RR / they find it irrelevant, so it will not attract as many or has the same reach.

they play for gear and "looks" nothing wrong about it.

but everybody wants an incentive that nobody hurts, so "visual stuff" is the best.

I really hate myself for giving other mmorpgs as an example but non the less.

in WoW you got a drake and a freaking title for your lifetime by doing one season extraordinary well.

some rewards in mmorpgs should be hard to achieve and should take some detication.

and I think 6 man is in this game the pinnacle of that.

nontheless, just an suggestion.

[peterthepan3]

People are talking about different issues here: pug farming, not wanting to queue 6v6, etc.

I'm talking about incentives to get people queuing as a group - regardless of whether you're good, or get beaten all the time.

I'm talking about people who already have their gear, and then think 'What is the point of queuing scenarios?'. RVR? Lots of renown, chance to get purples, you got the cool looking paragon tokens, but scenarios? Lol. Half the weapons aren't even BIS (if you're a 2H and capitalising on AA, for example).

Incentives such as rewarding people with X more emblems/rr/item (whatever) for even doing a scenario, or 10 x this scenario. Little carrots like this that motivate people to try it out. Of course, winners should always get more, but rewarding other groups for at least trying and attempting to win would go a long way.

Instead of ALWAYS queuing Battle for Praag because 1000 people means you'll have a good chance of winning, why not try Gates of Ekrund? 20 x GOE wins and you get a cool appearance item? 20 X Isha Temple wins and you get a pot to increase RR gain for x hours? ETC ETC. It's amazing how little things like these actually work (tried and tested in WoW). I completely echo the sentiments above, and it would be cool to attach different rewards to different scenarios to get them all queued/popping as frequently as Battle for Praag/LF seem to be, lmao.

It just seems kinda dead that pug pops are 10x quicker than group, and the game revolves around group play.

[Bushmaster]

Order vs order/destro vs destro scs....sounds interesting!

[Collateral]

It just seems kinda dead that pug pops are 10x quicker than group, and the game revolves around group play.

I think the reason is obvious. There are no destro groups queing. And another reason is that premade groups are balanced compositions. You usually don't get that in pug scs. You get really weird comps since a lot of different people are queing. Hence when a perfect group ques, it's hard for the algorithm to find a place for them it seems. Do you understand what I mean?

[peterthepan3]

It just seems kinda dead that pug pops are 10x quicker than group, and the game revolves around group play.

I think the reason is obvious. There are no destro groups queing. And another reason is that premade groups are balanced compositions. You usually don't get that in pug scs. You get really weird comps since a lot of different people are queing. Hence when a perfect group ques, it's hard for the algorithm to find a place for them it seems. Do you understand what I mean?

Well you got Starilas, you got Kume, you got Partyelf, you got Drizzt, and a few others during NA times. It's hardly that many less than Order.

I do get you, yes. What I am saying, however, is that groups shouldn't have to wait for up to 25-30minutes a pop during primetime, just because of this pug scenario. There should be a few carrots motivating people to at least try to form groups, because once you have what you need what use are scenarios? Why not just opt for the solo/duo fast pop rate/less challenging gameplay?

[footpatrol2]

Tie Sc's to the RvR campaign/zone flips like it used to be and you will see a explosion of competition. Ya gotta fix the problems this caused in AoR, which shouldn't be too hard to do. That old system actually put meaning to the SC's. As it is now SC's are a meaningless side game independant to the RvR campaign.

[Collateral]

^ that's another thing good point. Other than getting gear that is for an off-spec, you don't really get anything else. The renown is incomparable to RvR, the xp as well. You can get weapons, but they are not terribly important either. You can do just fine with the cheap sc weapons which doesn't take very long to acquire, or the epic quest weapons which takes 20-30 minutes.