Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem

[Jaycub]

^pretty much that, game balance will change quite a lot with higher gear sets. Surely we all haven't forgotten Azaraels last thread in balance forms.

Maybe wh and we will be decent again when everyone has 4k armor unbuffed :^)

[Toldavf]

^pretty much that, game balance will change quite a lot with higher gear sets. Surely we all haven't forgotten Azaraels last thread in balance forms.

Maybe wh and we will be decent again when everyone has 4k armor unbuffed :^)

I think that's actually when wh starts needing help as a class. I mean sure your torment will remain good but you will loose allot of dps from other areas AA's, Executions and your cc/debuffs. Also I remember Toughness being stacked on Certain healers after decent armour was achieved so torment will suffer there to.

Of course that was live so we will have to see how the meta grows with gear.

As for the Mara armour debuff I've no idea how it will stack up in end game. It's not gonna soar up to 1800 like live, It's as big as its gonna get at its current level shile armour is going to increase at least 3 more times (Invader, warlord sov). So making any changes atm is probably a bad idea.

[TenTonHammer]

Elephant in the room is everyone and their grandma stacking up on those sweet 150+ armor talismans in every slot, since armor is the most effective mitigation by a huge margin

those 150 armor talismans cost quite the pretty penny and is not being stacked by everyone even 120 tallies go for 13-15g a peice on destro

and spending 84g or so on tallies per set is not something the average player can really do same with 660 armor potions and all that which are fundementally broken beucase of how they reneder quite a few abilites in this game worthless

Debuff itself is like 1200-1440 in most builds anyway, I don't see any problem with it being better than tank/rdps variant since you need to be in melee to apply it and aren't as tanky.
Armor values will increase with higher gear like Warlord or Sov, debuff will stay the same.

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?


Secondly yes the armor sets will increase in armor value BUT the devs have already stated it will be nothing to the level of live inorder to control gear power creep and not render other T4 sets worthless

[TenTonHammer]

^pretty much that, game balance will change quite a lot with higher gear sets. Surely we all haven't forgotten Azaraels last thread in balance forms.

A thread that didnt go anywhere because not everyone bought it nor agreed with it.

WAR is a gear driven pvp but class balance and gear should be kept seperate, classes issues should not be addressed by saying "just wait/use for x set/item" or "y class is garbage now that z set is in the game"

additionally you said it your self, we will not have rr100 sets in this game, so their wont be a real fundamental shift like their was on live

[charlysixb]

I dont think nerfing armor debuffs on mara is a good idea cos high armor values on many players.
150 talismans are super easy to obtain in high level players with good gear ( 180 are a different story ) Also tanks with his own armor buffs and m1 can debuff even more ( you can drop x2 M1 armor debuff and a normal armor debuff on a target)
Best way to balance Mara imo? Buff Slayer and Choppa

[Panzerkasper]

I dont think nerfing armor debuffs on mara is a good idea cos high armor values on many players.
150 talismans are super easy to obtain in high level players with good gear ( 180 are a different story ) Also tanks with his own armor buffs and m1 can debuff even more ( you can drop x2 M1 armor debuff and a normal armor debuff on a target)
Best way to balance Mara imo? Buff Slayer and Choppa

Buff Slayer

[Dajciekrwi]

those 150 armor talismans cost quite the pretty penny and is not being stacked by everyone even 120 tallies go for 13-15g a peice on destro

and spending 84g or so on tallies per set is not something the average player can really do same with 660 armor potions and all that which are fundementally broken beucase of how they reneder quite a few abilites in this game worthless

Debuff itself is like 1200-1440 in most builds anyway, I don't see any problem with it being better than tank/rdps variant since you need to be in melee to apply it and aren't as tanky.
Armor values will increase with higher gear like Warlord or Sov, debuff will stay the same.

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?


Secondly yes the armor sets will increase in armor value BUT the devs have already stated it will be nothing to the level of live inorder to control gear power creep and not render other T4 sets worthless

That not a important arguments, with all respect.
So armor debuff is bad , because we need gold to buy talismans/potions?
Ok, its a part of game too, or just give all things for free for all -like in GW2 arenas.

Why should mdpeses have more powerful debuff than tanks?
Simply because, noone will play mdps, if tanks have same debuff with along more survivality?
If compared with Mara generally - 2H chosens and Black Orcs kills more and do more damage in scenarios.

[Toldavf]

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?
s

Because we are a dps class and its our enabler. Every dps in game has a way to deal with mitigation. There's a reason the wl/mara Debuff is undefendable and that is because if it doesn't go in your damage goes nowhere.

[TenTonHammer]

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?
s

Because we are a dps class and its our enabler. Every dps in game has a way to deal with mitigation. There's a reason the wl/mara Debuff is undefendable and that is because if it doesn't go in your damage goes nowhere.

the fact that its undefended gives it less justification for being the highest armor debuff in the game, like others have said BG and Mara need their armor debuff values swapped, would go far as to suggest the same for IB and WL as well tbt

[Toldavf]

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?
s

Because we are a dps class and its our enabler. Every dps in game has a way to deal with mitigation. There's a reason the wl/mara Debuff is undefendable and that is because if it doesn't go in your damage goes nowhere.

the fact that its undefended gives it less justification for being the highest armor debuff in the game, like others have said BG and Mara need their armor debuff values swapped

At which point at the very least the marauder simply goes on the shelf for a 2nd chopper. You won't fix any meta with swapsies, you will just change it breaking classes as you go.