Patch Notes 21/10/17

[Glorian]

Do bonuses for your next bag roll carry over after logging out?

Server Restart, Logging off, Disconects WILL NOT remove your gold bag roll bonus stacks from past not winning a gold bag.

[Defacian]

Can someone explain how the bag rolls work in detail? I am very confused.

I recently participated in a zone take in which I was the first player in the zone to assault an objective. Over the course of the take, I took numerous BOs, killed many players both in a warband and as a solo player, was on the ram for both doors of the keep, and attacked the lord for the entire duration of the fight. In a normal zone take this usually nets me top 1-3 contribution pretty consistently.

In this zone take, I was shown a window of just my roll with no bonus to it, and the only bag being available at the top of the roll screen as white. My roll came, and showed up as a blurry number that I could not read. The window then disappeared before showing if I won anything. 5ish minutes later I received a white bag in the mail. If it matters, this was my first zone lock since the new system was implemented.

So how does this actually work? Was I really only eligible for a white bag regardless of my contribution? How can you actually tell what your contribution is?

[Coma]

Can someone explain how the bag rolls work in detail? I am very confused.

I recently participated in a zone take in which I was the first player in the zone to assault an objective. Over the course of the take, I took numerous BOs, killed many players both in a warband and as a solo player, was on the ram for both doors of the keep, and attacked the lord for the entire duration of the fight. In a normal zone take this usually nets me top 1-3 contribution pretty consistently.

In this zone take, I was shown a window of just my roll with no bonus to it, and the only bag being available at the top of the roll screen as white. My roll came, and showed up as a blurry number that I could not read. The window then disappeared before showing if I won anything. 5ish minutes later I received a white bag in the mail. If it matters, this was my first zone lock since the new system was implemented.

So how does this actually work? Was I really only eligible for a white bag regardless of my contribution? How can you actually tell what your contribution is?

ok O'll try to explain in details (hoping that I've truly got it and not giving mistaken informations ^^')

1) you are ALWAYS elegible for all bag as long as you meet a minimum contribution requirment (so if you can roll for white you can also roll for gold)

2) your contribution is calculated and a roll applied but contrary to previos system your contribution is not shown but hidden (tha's why you only see the rolled value)

3) based on the AVARAGE contribution of player that took part to the lock, a trashold is generated for each kind of bag

4) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining GOLD bag in previous lock and checked against the GOLD bag trashold, if you pass you get GOLD and your "stored bonus" for GOLD bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus for GOLD bag is increased and you move to step 5

5) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining PURPLE bag in previous lock and checked against the PURPLE bag trashold, if you pass you get PURPLE and your "stored bonus" for PURPLE bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus" for PURPLE bag is increased and you move to step 6

6) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining BLUE bag in previous lock and checked against the BLUE bag trashold, if you pass you get BLUE and your "stored bonus" for BLUE bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus" for BLUE bag is increased and you move to step 7

7) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining GREEN bag in previous lock and checked against the GREEN bag trashold, if you pass you get GREEN and your "stored bonus" for GREEN bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus" for GREEN bag is increased and you move to step 8

8) you win a WHITE bag


ok.. this should be it... pls correct me if I missed misinterpreted something ^^'

[Kordie]

On my Level 39 RP...

Pulled lord agro healing during a fight in lord room with destro. Couldnt shake it no matter what. Lord got down to like 10% eventually with me tanking it, and then I was knocked out of the lord room by a BG. Lord reset.

Later pulled lord agro healing group during a fight with destro. Had to move to keep group alive during fight. Lord reset.

This is going to keep happening. On a healer, I am not going to lose a tactic to generate less hate that isnt going to work anyways. I dont really care about the PvE aspect of the lord as I am there to fight players. Really, in my humble opinion, the lord should be an afterthought and only encourage fighting other players, not be set up in a way to encourage people not to fight other players.

So yeah, sorry in advance for the multiple lord resets that are going to keep happening. You better make sure you dont have the tactic slotted to reduce hate AND you out heal me if I am at the lord room with you. I am there to fight players, not PvE in a WvW zone.

Punts forcing aggro loss is a bug imo. Happened in SL last night when Lortie aoe punted in the lords room. We had about a wb stacked on the lord due to hate/tanking issues and aggro should switch to those still in range but not completely drop and reset the lord.

Good to see a fellow PT player btw.

[anarchypark]

Spoiler:

On my Level 39 RP...

Pulled lord agro healing during a fight in lord room with destro. Couldnt shake it no matter what. Lord got down to like 10% eventually with me tanking it, and then I was knocked out of the lord room by a BG. Lord reset.

Later pulled lord agro healing group during a fight with destro. Had to move to keep group alive during fight. Lord reset.

This is going to keep happening. On a healer, I am not going to lose a tactic to generate less hate that isnt going to work anyways. I dont really care about the PvE aspect of the lord as I am there to fight players. Really, in my humble opinion, the lord should be an afterthought and only encourage fighting other players, not be set up in a way to encourage people not to fight other players.

So yeah, sorry in advance for the multiple lord resets that are going to keep happening. You better make sure you dont have the tactic slotted to reduce hate AND you out heal me if I am at the lord room with you. I am there to fight players, not PvE in a WvW zone.

positioning is pvp.
target priority is pvp.
in this case, lord was more important than healing. just die and let tanks take aggro then get rez, start again.
if tanks couldn't keep aggro, that sux. that's team pvp.
I understand lack of trust about your team. can't rely on them, right?
give them some chance to l2p. consider failure as training ground.
if BO, door, lord are really felt like pve, just avoid them.

[anarchypark]

Punts forcing aggro loss is a bug imo. Happened in SL last night when Lortie aoe punted in the lords room. We had about a wb stacked on the lord due to hate/tanking issues and aggro should switch to those still in range but not completely drop and reset the lord.

Good to see a fellow PT player btw.

Patch Notes 13/10/17

-Guards in keeps are now subject to a line of sight check. Hiding around the walls of a keep will result in not aggroing the guards or keep lord.

punt into stairs, behind pillars etc. It might be tricky.

[Defacian]

Can someone explain how the bag rolls work in detail? I am very confused.

I recently participated in a zone take in which I was the first player in the zone to assault an objective. Over the course of the take, I took numerous BOs, killed many players both in a warband and as a solo player, was on the ram for both doors of the keep, and attacked the lord for the entire duration of the fight. In a normal zone take this usually nets me top 1-3 contribution pretty consistently.

In this zone take, I was shown a window of just my roll with no bonus to it, and the only bag being available at the top of the roll screen as white. My roll came, and showed up as a blurry number that I could not read. The window then disappeared before showing if I won anything. 5ish minutes later I received a white bag in the mail. If it matters, this was my first zone lock since the new system was implemented.

So how does this actually work? Was I really only eligible for a white bag regardless of my contribution? How can you actually tell what your contribution is?

ok O'll try to explain in details (hoping that I've truly got it and not giving mistaken informations ^^')

1) you are ALWAYS elegible for all bag as long as you meet a minimum contribution requirment (so if you can roll for white you can also roll for gold)

2) your contribution is calculated and a roll applied but contrary to previos system your contribution is not shown but hidden (tha's why you only see the rolled value)

3) based on the AVARAGE contribution of player that took part to the lock, a trashold is generated for each kind of bag

4) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining GOLD bag in previous lock and checked against the GOLD bag trashold, if you pass you get GOLD and your "stored bonus" for GOLD bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus for GOLD bag is increased and you move to step 5

5) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining PURPLE bag in previous lock and checked against the PURPLE bag trashold, if you pass you get PURPLE and your "stored bonus" for PURPLE bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus" for PURPLE bag is increased and you move to step 6

6) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining BLUE bag in previous lock and checked against the BLUE bag trashold, if you pass you get BLUE and your "stored bonus" for BLUE bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus" for BLUE bag is increased and you move to step 7

7) your roll is added to your "stored bonus" for not obtaining GREEN bag in previous lock and checked against the GREEN bag trashold, if you pass you get GREEN and your "stored bonus" for GREEN bag is reset, if not the "stored bonus" for GREEN bag is increased and you move to step 8

8) you win a WHITE bag


ok.. this should be it... pls correct me if I missed misinterpreted something ^^'

Yes I think I understood most of the fundamentals of the roll system pretty well; it's just that most of the questions I have are related to the visual feedback given post-zone lock. I'm concerned that the roll window said available bags: and then showed a white bag only. I'm also concerned that I was unable to see my roll (it was a sort of blurry number that looks like the reel of numbers is still in motion). I did miss that the player contribution was being intentionally obscured.

I have to say that as much as I like and appreciate the decision to give everyone an individual roll and not restrict everyone to a small pool of loot, I hate the decision to deprive the player of relevant information to the loot roll. Before it was very cut and dried to see why you got the bag you got. The only tricky thing was determining how to best gain contribution, which can be figured out with trial and error based on the contribution rank you could see at the end of a zone lock.

Now I can't see my roll, contribution, or what I would actually need to roll to obtain a certain bag. It's essentially just show up to every single zone take and eventually you'll get your bags and you probably won't really know how or why. Seems very lame and unrewarding. Like I have no idea if the reason I got a white bag is because I got really unlucky, I somehow didn't have a large contribution despite being in the zone forever and doing a lot of things, or if that's just to be expected with this loot system before you gain the bonus rolls. No feedback is generally bad feedback in my experience.

I also don't like the fact that every single zone take is now going to be a must attend event if you care at all about genesis or conq. As a primarily SC player that already suffers from brutal queue times post-EU primetime, I can't imagine this is going to do anything but hurt queue times now that even showing up very late to a zone take is immensely rewarding.

[Defacian]

I also want to suggest an alternative just so I'm not whining without offering constructive criticism:

A big problem with the old system is that cases like this would often occur:

- 24 players all start the zone at roughly the same time, and contribute roughly the same amount of effort to a zone take.
-With the old system, the bottom 18 or so of those 24 get absolutely screwed with those bonuses, being up to 700 pts behind the leader despite putting in roughly the same amount of effort. This was due to an arbitrary ranking system. Very small differences in contribution lead to very large differences in roll bonus.
-This, combined with a low number of total bags means you can spend 5+ hours in a zone and get absolutely nothing out of it because of bad luck and a poorly designed contribution bonus system.

How I thought the new system would work:

-Each of those 24 players could get roughly that +750 bonus, as they are not competing with each other.
-Bags would be given out based on certain roll thresholds. For example:
-1300+ gets gold bag
-1150+ gets purp bag
-1000+ gets blue etc...

This of course still puts you at the mercy of roll RNG, but doesn't have the side effect of giving you a massively lesser chance of winning loot for only an extremely minor discrepancy in contribution.

[Tamarlan]

I also want to suggest an alternative just so I'm not whining without offering constructive criticism:

A big problem with the old system is that cases like this would often occur:

- 24 players all start the zone at roughly the same time, and contribute roughly the same amount of effort to a zone take.
-With the old system, the bottom 18 or so of those 24 get absolutely screwed with those bonuses, being up to 700 pts behind the leader despite putting in roughly the same amount of effort. This was due to an arbitrary ranking system. Very small differences in contribution lead to very large differences in roll bonus.
-This, combined with a low number of total bags means you can spend 5+ hours in a zone and get absolutely nothing out of it because of bad luck and a poorly designed contribution bonus system.

How I thought the new system would work:

-Each of those 24 players could get roughly that +750 bonus, as they are not competing with each other.
-Bags would be given out based on certain roll thresholds. For example:
-1300+ gets gold bag
-1150+ gets purp bag
-1000+ gets blue etc...

This of course still puts you at the mercy of roll RNG, but doesn't have the side effect of giving you a massively lesser chance of winning loot for only an extremely minor discrepancy in contribution.

How is about giving them time to refine a one day old system instead of proposing a new one?

[Glorian]

I also want to suggest an alternative just so I'm not whining without offering constructive criticism:

A big problem with the old system is that cases like this would often occur:

- 24 players all start the zone at roughly the same time, and contribute roughly the same amount of effort to a zone take.
-With the old system, the bottom 18 or so of those 24 get absolutely screwed with those bonuses, being up to 700 pts behind the leader despite putting in roughly the same amount of effort. This was due to an arbitrary ranking system. Very small differences in contribution lead to very large differences in roll bonus.
-This, combined with a low number of total bags means you can spend 5+ hours in a zone and get absolutely nothing out of it because of bad luck and a poorly designed contribution bonus system.

How I thought the new system would work:

-Each of those 24 players could get roughly that +750 bonus, as they are not competing with each other.
-Bags would be given out based on certain roll thresholds. For example:
-1300+ gets gold bag
-1150+ gets purp bag
-1000+ gets blue etc...

This of course still puts you at the mercy of roll RNG, but doesn't have the side effect of giving you a massively lesser chance of winning loot for only an extremely minor discrepancy in contribution.

You don't know what the distribution is on the 24 players with the new system. So you can't be sure if it is less bags than in the old system.
If you have 250 players in the zone rolling. New system has definitely more white bags.