[Sorc]How bad is it really?

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#31 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm

I'm getting tired of this slightly.
So, for fun I've made a small slowed down clip: Hard evidence:
- BiS BW, with capped int, maxed out disrupt strikethrough from potential gear;
- against pug zealot that doesn't even use stat potions or detaunt me, and is unguarded;

I wasn't counting DoT hits from ignite that finally landed, or from procs.

Time in which I'm hitting this zealot is measured in 24 regular seconds.
Out of 9 major attacks, 6 of them are getting disrupted, that is a 67% disrupt rate and 33% effectiveness of my potential attacks.

It is so much "fun", that I've thrown my BW to the "never touch it again" drawer, as majority of other caster players did as well.
I like the class the most of all I've played, but it's not a reliable source of dps at all atm.
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anarchypark
Posts: 2085

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#32 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:37 pm

no one plays healer in this thread?

change was not about disrupt.
there were absolute avoidance values and useless avoidance stat.
vs
absolute strikethrough values and dominant main offense stat.
you see the unbalance here?

defenders focus on absolute values.
attackers just don't care of strikethrough.
Dev fixed unbalance.

now all factors go into roll.
you earn what you invest.

in short, high absolute avoidance is gone.
everyone can access 20+-% avoidance via RR skill.
It's not that unfair. you have range advantage if you didn't noticed.

you're suffering because you didn't care about stat tailoring.
maxing offense stat is hardly an effort compared to tank/healer.
they make choice for stronger/weaker spot and play accordingly.
how about you rdps do the same?
I myself laughing at 2h dps tanks as magus.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS6, BW6, WP8, WH7, IB8, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm6, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#33 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:50 pm

The only reason why Sorc keeps working in AoE spec/bombing is because the Disrupts become "diversified", that is, the risk of having your dmg disrupted is divided between so many targets that even if 4 out of 9 are Disrupted on landing, the remaining 5 still dish out some dmg. Though I've seen cases where I shoot out Infernal Wave and I get back 9/9 disrupts which is comically sad. (pure RNG tbh, good days, bad days, luck varies)

Go-to abilities:
Infernal Wave, you shoot dmg out forwards 65ft, no primary target required to no initial "main" Disrupt check
Ice Spikes, DoT 65ft feet frontal cone, deals mostly fluff dmg but starts adding up when 3-5 Sorcs all do it so those 200-400 ticks become more combined together
Surging Pain, 30 feet radius around Sorc, deals okayish dmg but costs Dark Magic, doesnt require primary target so no main Disrupt check
Pit of Shades, targeted area gets AoE dmg, mediocre dmg and doesnt work if too many people PoS same area (doesnt stack so out of 10 sorcs PoSing one area only 1 does dmg, not sure how chosen)
Disastrous Cascade, 30 feet radius around player, deals okayish dmg, again doesnt require primary target so threat of Disrupt is divided amongst many targets

more meh;

Shadow Knives, decent dmg, has absurd long CD (with 16 sec meaning basically thrice per minute), and if your primary target has high Disrupt/Block it fails to launch properly meaning no dmg to other targets (not sure if working as intended or if it varies depending on lag)
Shattered Shadows, 3 sec cast and if primary target disrupt/block it does no aoe dmg - standing 3 sec still in large fight that requires SS is suicidemode
Black Horror - looks cool, 3 sec cast is suicide and if primary target check fails 0 dmg to everyone, does less dmg than SS and even the debuff of -80 init is easier done by a SH in Conq gear
Gloom of Night, bit meh as it requires primary target and 2 sec cast is also high risk in rvr, was more fun to get rid of enemy tank Challenge debuffs with this ability back in the days when you could actually cast on tanks with decent success rates


Still, it works often enough I guess, because if you stack 4 sorcs and each does Infernal Wave expecting 50% of Disrupts, out of 36 hits 18 would still hit home and wreck enemies considerably.

Now if only AoE spec would work in Scs and in smallscale...


In smallscale, you would have troubles because if 20-60% of your supposed burst fails to land on target, you don't "half-burst" someone to death, in which case its a miss. Another great issue is being that healers are able to laugh off most of your attempts at focusing them due to your DoTs requiring multiple checks before hitting home.

Obviously it can work because quite many players play without guard or without heals and cleanses, but against solid enemy groups where healers can notice WoP and Sorc rotation starting, easy pre-hotting and targets self awareness to break LoS or detaunt Sorc; - another failed burst rotation.
With melee classes you can always go behind enemy backs to avoid being parried or blocked, with Sorc you just pray to RNGesus, sometimes with more success, sometimes with less - leading to occasionally quite frustrating encounters.
Maybe Devs will eventually take a look at the class, but Sorc being just 1 of the 7 magical dmg dealers in game, they would have to rework the whole Disrupt thingy back to how it was before last October.

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Acidic
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Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#34 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:52 pm

Think you also need to consider what you are doing with a soc to determin disrupt effect.

Single target and dotting can be annoying
Aoe in open field not so bad, positioning makes diff
Aoe keep attack it’s rightly a pain due to tank wall

I play aoe soc some of the time and don’t notice so often the disrupt.

I just notice the f..Ing WL :(

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Scrilian
Posts: 1570

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#35 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:54 pm

Reesh wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm It is so much "fun", that I've thrown my BW to the "never touch it again" drawer, as majority of other caster players did as well.
I like the class the most of all I've played, but it's not a reliable source of dps at all atm.
Well, come to think of it, this might explain the current wave of new WLs as well as dps tanks for both sides.
Вальтер Рыжий RU => Gaziraga BW, Valefar WL, Lovejoy
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ex-Greenfire/Invasion RvR leader
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Ugle
Posts: 590

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#36 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:25 pm

Reesh wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm I'm getting tired of this slightly.
So, for fun I've made a small slowed down clip: Hard evidence:
- BiS BW, with capped int, maxed out disrupt strikethrough from potential gear;
- against pug zealot that doesn't even use stat potions or detaunt me, and is unguarded;

I wasn't counting DoT hits from ignite that finally landed, or from procs.

Time in which I'm hitting this zealot is measured in 24 regular seconds.
Out of 9 major attacks, 6 of them are getting disrupted, that is a 67% disrupt rate and 33% effectiveness of my potential attacks.

It is so much "fun", that I've thrown my BW to the "never touch it again" drawer, as majority of other caster players did as well.
I like the class the most of all I've played, but it's not a reliable source of dps at all atm.
The zealot is BiS geared and rr66. What do you expect? Also can't see how detaunting and guard should affect his disrupt rate.
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#37 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:34 pm

Spoiler:
Ugle wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:25 pm
Reesh wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm I'm getting tired of this slightly.
So, for fun I've made a small slowed down clip: Hard evidence:
- BiS BW, with capped int, maxed out disrupt strikethrough from potential gear;
- against pug zealot that doesn't even use stat potions or detaunt me, and is unguarded;

I wasn't counting DoT hits from ignite that finally landed, or from procs.

Time in which I'm hitting this zealot is measured in 24 regular seconds.
Out of 9 major attacks, 6 of them are getting disrupted, that is a 67% disrupt rate and 33% effectiveness of my potential attacks.

It is so much "fun", that I've thrown my BW to the "never touch it again" drawer, as majority of other caster players did as well.
I like the class the most of all I've played, but it's not a reliable source of dps at all atm.
The zealot is BiS geared and rr66. What do you expect? Also can't see how detaunting and guard should affect his disrupt rate.
Point is, without those damage decrease modificators in use, his hp was still constantly at full so he could treat me as an annyoing housefly and completly forget about dps class sitting on him for 24seconds.
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michela89
Posts: 147

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#38 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:40 pm

- Where is all this Disrupt coming from?

- How are these disrupt galore dpsers even gearing?

- is this mostly a problem with healers because of that high willpower?

- Are you talking from a premade vs premade only point of view? I thought it was mostly pug stomping actually

- Is everyone running around with an invisible pocket Ironbreaker for that sweet willpower?

- Wat?



the hyperbole in these kinda thread is really out of control.

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Dabbart
Posts: 2251

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#39 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:47 pm

Reesh wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:34 pm
Spoiler:
Ugle wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:25 pm
Reesh wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm I'm getting tired of this slightly.
So, for fun I've made a small slowed down clip: Hard evidence:
- BiS BW, with capped int, maxed out disrupt strikethrough from potential gear;
- against pug zealot that doesn't even use stat potions or detaunt me, and is unguarded;

I wasn't counting DoT hits from ignite that finally landed, or from procs.

Time in which I'm hitting this zealot is measured in 24 regular seconds.
Out of 9 major attacks, 6 of them are getting disrupted, that is a 67% disrupt rate and 33% effectiveness of my potential attacks.

It is so much "fun", that I've thrown my BW to the "never touch it again" drawer, as majority of other caster players did as well.
I like the class the most of all I've played, but it's not a reliable source of dps at all atm.
The zealot is BiS geared and rr66. What do you expect? Also can't see how detaunting and guard should affect his disrupt rate.
Point is, without those damage decrease modificators in use, his hp was still constantly at full so he could treat me as an annyoing housefly and completly forget about dps class sitting on him for 24seconds.

So, a healer that is obviously speced for defense and Disrupt is able to M2 power heal through a single DPS's spike... Whats the problem? Go yell at the order PUGs for focusing the chosen and mara and ignoring the Healer. Or make a friend of a SW/Engi and have them slot the -15% avoidance tactic...

That video shows PUGs experiencing PUG issues... It aint proof of much. Especially since you have no idea what the Zs spec is. Is he full Deft Defender stacking WP tali's? If so, then that is why god created Physical damage. Go yell at that slayer to assist. Or maybe stop casting on players that derp-stack disrupt. I mean, sure you were "on him" for 24s. But I didn't see a single full rotation attempt from you. Just keep trying to use your quick/instants and DoTs. All the while melting yourself for 0 damage inflicted.

But yea. It obvious that your gameplay couldn't improve in any way shape or form. It's obvious that Disrupt rates are broken. Just Obvious...
Azarael wrote: It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)
Secrets wrote: Kindly adjust your attitude to actually help the community and do not impose your will on it. You aren't as powerful as you think.

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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [Sorc]How bad is it really?

Post#40 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:57 pm

Spoiler:
Dabbart wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:47 pm
Reesh wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:34 pm
Spoiler:
Ugle wrote: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:25 pm

The zealot is BiS geared and rr66. What do you expect? Also can't see how detaunting and guard should affect his disrupt rate.
Point is, without those damage decrease modificators in use, his hp was still constantly at full so he could treat me as an annyoing housefly and completly forget about dps class sitting on him for 24seconds.

So, a healer that is obviously speced for defense and Disrupt is able to M2 power heal through a single DPS's spike... Whats the problem? Go yell at the order PUGs for focusing the chosen and mara and ignoring the Healer. Or make a friend of a SW/Engi and have them slot the -15% avoidance tactic...

That video shows PUGs experiencing PUG issues... It aint proof of much. Especially since you have no idea what the Zs spec is. Is he full Deft Defender stacking WP tali's? If so, then that is why god created Physical damage. Go yell at that slayer to assist. Or maybe stop casting on players that derp-stack disrupt. I mean, sure you were "on him" for 24s. But I didn't see a single full rotation attempt from you. Just keep trying to use your quick/instants and DoTs. All the while melting yourself for 0 damage inflicted.

But yea. It obvious that your gameplay couldn't improve in any way shape or form. It's obvious that Disrupt rates are broken. Just Obvious...
Basic concept of archetype and what it should do is weak to this one it seems.
That's enough for this thread for me, back to my mdps toons.
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