Philosophical Power Discrepancy

[MedV]

The problem is if the power difference between 31 and rr60+ was minimal what is the incentive to keep playing. It would feel weird being lvl 31 and being able to 1v1 a 60. I also think this time period in a characters development is important. You learn where you belong in a Wb/Sc. As a lvl 30 Sorc in t2 scs you cld be running through the front lines, bombing everyone. Now as a fresh 31 you need to go where you belong.

[mynie]

The problem is if the power difference between 31 and rr60+ was minimal what is the incentive to keep playing. It would feel weird being lvl 31 and being able to 1v1 a 60. I also think this time period in a characters development is important. You learn where you belong in a Wb/Sc. As a lvl 30 Sorc in t2 scs you cld be running through the front lines, bombing everyone. Now as a fresh 31 you need to go where you belong.

I guess the incentive to keep playing could be... because the game is actually fun ?
Lets face it.. lvl 31 has already less abilities, less renown abilities etc, already.. i doubt we need more incentive

[kitchenslave]

I love it when people bend over and pull numbers out of the usual spot.... 200-400% more powerful in t2 scenarios due to gear difference... rofl. Seriously. Go check the damn Wiki, the stats of gear are posted there. Go do the actual math. The differences between gear are negligible. 400% power difference... rofl. Stop making things up to suit your viewpoint. Go do the actual math.

Yep. Nothing to do with tactics or class abilities unlocked. Healers don’t get grp heal til rank20, so a lvl 19 will be substantially weaker than a 20, in the exact same gear, they also have an extra tactic slot.

OP says he wants to stay in T2. We’ll, that’s the issues you face down there then. Some classes just function better at lower lvl than others.

But you seriously expect Devs to spend time balancing a game towards someone who specifically doesn’t want to reach end game and only cares about SCs? You’ve been here since 2016, I feel like you should know better than this...

Btw; bolster is so powerful at lower ranks, that a lvl1 WH bolstered used to have 100% parry tile rank 2. Dunno if this is still the case. I do know that a bolsterd tank lvl 1 has capped defensive stats. Which a 15 has to spend a lot of talis to achieve... maybe OP forgets that armor, resistance, avoidance, chance to be crit, etc all have their formulas based on character rank, so you could have less armor/resistances but a higher % negated....

check my post again, I never said the power discrepancy was in tier 2.

[lefze]

Some classes just function better at lower lvl than others.

This is one of the big issues with the current system. Some classes even get actively shafted by not being 40 like kotbs/chosen/WL/SH because of class mechanic turning itself off when zoning. Other classes can't function at all without certain skills/tactics as they are 100% mandatory. Getting a decent damage boost from bolster for example isn't gonna make much of a difference when you lack the skills and tactics to pull off any kind of bursts on a bursty class for example, leaving it as quite useless. Lacking a heal debuff here and a knockdown there might seem like a small issue to most, but it really does impact the quality of the pvp. I personally even dislike the mastery points given from renown as it makes for such variances in available builds. Power should come from minor stat differences, not from someone not having access to functioning specs AND having subpar stats.

Overall the bugginess of the system itself makes it something that should never have been implemented in the way it was.

[huntergregg]

I don't play SCs much on my lowbie toons so I can't say for sure, but I think the OP is referring only to SCs, and perhaps bolster works differently there. Someone could probably confirm this.

However, in the RvR lakes I can tell you with 100% accuracy that bolster offsets any level difference. I recently rolled a kotbs and at lvl 27, bolstered, in Mayhem gear, she had similar stats to my 40/45 knight with Beastlord/Anni gear, with some stats such as strength and WS even higher than my 40/45 knight. I was seeing 900 toughness, 800 wounds, 400 weapon skill, 400 strength, 0 chance to be crit...at lvl 27. And yes, both had talis and were specced identically, in the same mastery trees and with the same rr points spent on defensive stats (none in base stats).

I spent all my time playing this new lowbie knight because I was kicking the crap out of destro that I couldn't dent on my 40/45 knight. Now, as she's leveled up and bolster has much less impact, I notice she is less effective and I have to spend more points and use better talismans to keep her stats up.

So to address the OP's question, I don't think there is such a discrepancy that you suggest, at least in open RvR. If anything the edge goes to the lower level bolstered character.

Scenarios may be bolstered differently, and if that is the case I guess you just have to deal with it as you also aren't fighting against fully geared out level 40/80+ opponents until you hit t4.

[Sulorie]

Scenarios may be bolstered differently, and if that is the case I guess you just have to deal with it as you also aren't fighting against fully geared out level 40/80+ opponents until you hit t4.

SC are similar. Lower ranked chars have a good time.

[sirensong25]

Hmmm. Why not just do away with leveling to 40 and make all toons/characters based on 40 or starting at 40L/40R? That way, the focus is strictly renown based, access is abundant in all teirs and zones, scenerios, etc. That would ameliorate and maybe bring out the best of encounters for Warhammer. The ability leveling structure is imo blandly outdated, instead of seeking to bring further effeciency to this stale model, push beyond it. For those who strictly adhere to the current, make it optional at creating. Hmmm?

[Eathisword]

I dont think this true at all. There might be a downspot between 31 and 35 ish. But after that, in merc/anni/ruin/wind impervious + epic weapons you can do ok.

Imo, if you get blown up @35/40 with decent gear, you will still get blown out at @40/80 in BiS.

Now for the small 31-35 gap, you can grimd it out getting your starter T4 gear and weapons in a couple hours.

I leveled a couple toons in past year (sl, sw, bg) and never had a problem past level 35. And i don’t play in premade much either.

[Yaliskah]

Hmmm. Why not just do away with leveling to 40 and make all toons/characters based on 40 or starting at 40L/40R? That way, the focus is strictly renown based, access is abundant in all teirs and zones, scenerios, etc. That would ameliorate and maybe bring out the best of encounters for Warhammer. The ability leveling structure is imo blandly outdated, instead of seeking to bring further effeciency to this stale model, push beyond it. For those who strictly adhere to the current, make it optional at creating. Hmmm?

Eheh. Let say we agree this and proceed.
Bam you are 40/40. Naked.

How many time before the first post : "But... they are geared and 80 and i'm not!! (and they hurt a lot) "

So someone will suggest : "Well why not 40/40 and ani ?"

Let say we agree this and proceed.
Bam, you are 40/40 with ani. But the road to conq will be so lonnnnggg (and they still hurt a lot)

How many time before the first post : "But... the oldest player are too powerfull and we are still farmed #balance #medals #gear #l2p "

So someone will suggest : "Why not give all max for free? Atleast everybody will be fine?"
Let say we agree this and proceed.
Bam, you are 40/80 best gear, talis and all.

How many time before the first post : "This game is soooooo boring. Nothing to win, no progression... ..you ruined this game."

And in the same time, what about this little guy who wanna play in T1 ?


Conclusion :

We will probably have to rework general progression system one day or another and we fully agree this. Dunno when, dunno how.

[sirensong25]

Fair enough, reasonable points and I can agree in the hypothetical situation, consternation manifesting in these examples. Thanks for the response and perspective.