Should 6man vs 6man matter in balance discussions?

[Zxul]

How do you balance it? It's too random and fluid. Do you balance for NA times when it's a handful of WBs? Do you balance for EU prime time when it's a mindless zerg?
Do we give every dps class a mindless aoe? Because st is pretty much useless in wb v wb clashes.
Better to balance individual classes on the 6 v6 as that is more realistic and doable. It's a more controlled enviroment that allows every class to be effective.

How has already been posted.

"Better to balance individual classes on the 6 v6 "- why should the server be balanced about 20 or so total players which actually do 6v6, and not about what the majority of the server population plays?

[Fallenkezef]

How do you balance it? It's too random and fluid. Do you balance for NA times when it's a handful of WBs? Do you balance for EU prime time when it's a mindless zerg?
Do we give every dps class a mindless aoe? Because st is pretty much useless in wb v wb clashes.
Better to balance individual classes on the 6 v6 as that is more realistic and doable. It's a more controlled enviroment that allows every class to be effective.

How has already been posted.

"Better to balance individual classes on the 6 v6 "- why should the server be balanced about 20 or so total players which actually do 6v6, and not about what the majority of the server population plays?

That "how" I don't really agree with tbh.

[Ugle]

Imo balancing should involve all "levels" 1v1, 3v3, 6v6,12v12,24v24 and blob vs blob.

Biggest mistake made is saying muh dosent work in 6v6/wb when muh is killing off an entire smallscale community. Volgograds recent post on the topic is put fort in more eloquent words.

[peterthepan3]

How do you balance it? It's too random and fluid. Do you balance for NA times when it's a handful of WBs? Do you balance for EU prime time when it's a mindless zerg?
Do we give every dps class a mindless aoe? Because st is pretty much useless in wb v wb clashes.
Better to balance individual classes on the 6 v6 as that is more realistic and doable. It's a more controlled enviroment that allows every class to be effective.

How has already been posted.

"Better to balance individual classes on the 6 v6 "- why should the server be balanced about 20 or so total players which actually do 6v6, and not about what the majority of the server population plays?

If the majority of the server opt to play in an unorganised & nonoptimal manner (this isn't to say that all pug players are; many are very good players!), that is their prerogative. It does not mandate a paradigm shift so as to facilitate to them.

Echo Fallzen's comments, too.

[Ramasee]

To go with the metaphor, we can start by making sure everyone at least has hands instead of arm stubs.

Also are we talking trying to balance rvr or warband capabilities. RvR itself could never be balanced by developer systems because players do what they want lol

[dansari]

I feel like the people who keep arguing that "warband is just 4 6mans" hasn't really played in a warband with voice comms. Roadkillrobin stated this earlier, but bringing things like conflag BWs, magnet, insta res AM, monstro Mara, or WW SM are garbage in 6v6, but it's precisely what you want to bring in 24v24. The nice thing about the game is that there are three trees, and each tree should allow you to have viability in 6v6 and/or 24v24. Balancing only around 6mans while completely ignoring or gutting viable "blob" specs is a terrible method, mainly because some things are only good in certain situations. Like, if we're talking about Mara drain or BW self pump tactics, we don't need to refer to their viability in 6v6 because that's not what they're used for.

I think it's incredibly silly to attempt to balance only around warband scale as well because then you would just create viable, yet boring, builds only for rvr. You'd lose the fun moments that come from outplaying more than your number because your small scale specs synergized well. You'd lose the people who enjoy only playing scenarios.

[live4treasure]

I don't even understand what the discueeion is about. Every class has several specs, at least one of which is directed at 6v6, one of which is directed at 24v24/blob and usually one of which is still good in 6v6 but better at solo. It's not like by balancing one single spec you ruin the class' viability for other content.

Just balance around both 6v6 and 24v24+, because we have the tools necessary to do so in a way where balancing one doesn't effect the other.

[Acidic]

I don't even understand what the discueeion is about. Every class has several specs, at least one of which is directed at 6v6, one of which is directed at 24v24/blob and usually one of which is still good in 6v6 but better at solo. It's not like by balancing one single spec you ruin the class' viability for other content.

Just balance around both 6v6 and 24v24+, because we have the tools necessary to do so in a way where balancing one doesn't effect the other.

This in the main, normally 6v6 setup and mobvmob don’t overlap that much and in the balance threads specs and used uses of spec seem to be considered

[Renork]

I feel like the people who keep arguing that "warband is just 4 6mans" hasn't really played in a warband with voice comms. Roadkillrobin stated this earlier, but bringing things like conflag BWs, magnet, insta res AM, monstro Mara, or WW SM are garbage in 6v6, but it's precisely what you want to bring in 24v24. The nice thing about the game is that there are three trees, and each tree should allow you to have viability in 6v6 and/or 24v24. Balancing only around 6mans while completely ignoring or gutting viable "blob" specs is a terrible method, mainly because some things are only good in certain situations. Like, if we're talking about Mara drain or BW self pump tactics, we don't need to refer to their viability in 6v6 because that's not what they're used for.

I think it's incredibly silly to attempt to balance only around warband scale as well because then you would just create viable, yet boring, builds only for rvr. You'd lose the fun moments that come from outplaying more than your number because your small scale specs synergized well. You'd lose the people who enjoy only playing scenarios.

I typically do not agree with you, but I agree with you on this 100%. The game would be incredibly boring if everything was balanced around warbands. Sure, the 6-man population is minimal on this server (the "pros" that farm pugs don't count"), but non-warband centered fights are still important.

On that note,

2018 let's make magus 6v6 viable (change spec) :^)

[peterthepan3]

2018 let's make magus 6v6 viable (change spec) :^)