[Engi] Build Advice - Selfish Tinkerer

[Elio]

Full Disclosure - I've just hit 40 on my Engi and could use some advice regarding a build I'm working on. I've yet to see any Engi's run anything close to it, so I want to make sure this isn't a terrible idea before I go through the process of gearing up.

"The Selfish Tinkerer" - I wanted to build an Engineer that's still pushing group utility (PD, Magnet) but isn't putting out negligible damage in a Warband. We're not some armor/toughness stacking def-Engi. This is an AoE DPS pushing machine who plays frontline and midrange.

A few quick notes.
1. This build, like a Slayer, needs a guard, preferably SnB IB. I don't see this working out very well in WB without one.

2. A huge advantage is that this build can get 80% of the gear by RR 32 (and a lot of PvE grind/guild help).

3. I'm under the assumption that WS doesn't benefit Corp damage in any way... if that is not the case then the gearing is moot.

GEARING!
Dump WS! The goal here is to pick up as many set bonuses from high armor sets with pieces that don't have any WS on them. A side effect of this is higher Init, Tough, and Wounds than if we were trying to pick up WS.

There are three gear sets I envision working with this build. The first is a more traditional DPS Engi gearset: Conq 5, Beastlord 4. I'd use this if it turns out the init debuff could be applied in AoE. The second two are more experimental. I'm unsure about which I'd prefer but will update once I've actually gotten the gear - currently leaning towards the Conq 2/Beastlord 4/ Onslaught 3.


Accessories are 3 Gen + BL
Weapons are Subj or high-tier Scenario.

MASTERY!
http://www.ror.builders/career/engineer ... ,3648,3647

Strafing Run is now Phos Shells. Not a great skill (damage wise), but it is more AoE DPS.

This is for <RR40 at 40 you can either pick up Trench Fighting or Tracer Rounds.

Tactics wise I think (for Warband play) PD, Masterful Aim, and Expert Skirm are core. You can float the 4th per need (AoE Snare or More Armor, ect).

RENOWN!
All in on Parry and D/D. From 41 onwards I assume you'll pump BS till 970, but that's one point I need help with.

PLAYSTYLE!
You ever play a Slayer? Basically that. Move with your tanks, understand the ebb and flow of the fight, push/retreat when necessary. BUT one big difference is you also play disruption and control on top of AoE DPS.

This isn't a set it and forget it Engi who hugs their turret for days. This is meant to be played mobile. Drop that bombardment turret and make use of cast on the move!

Even at high RR and 1050 BS I don't see this doing as much damage as a Slayer, but you make up for that with AoE fight control. Your magnet will be the locus of a shitstorm and learning to use mine/turret explosion EFFECTIVELY can turn the tide of fights. Please, please, PLEASE don't be like some engineers and just spread immunities.

In summary, the goal of this build is to reimagine Magnet Engi into something more engaging for WB play, and less of a bottom bitch on the DPS totem pole. "I have a magnet in my group so no medallions for me" shouldn't be a thing. This build also easily swaps into Grenadier (drop magnet, take napalm), but I wanted to work on making Magnet sexier.

Thoughts?

- Yir

[Darks63]

The main issue with stacking ws is it really doesn't end up paying off. I have found that on both the engine and sw you end up losing too much survivability for too small of a return.

[Elio]

The main issue with stacking ws is it really doesn't end up paying off. I have found that on both the engine and sw you end up losing too much survivability for too small of a return.

Do you mean BS (ballistics skill)? If so that's kind of the core of my question about the build. What's the difference in damage between a 1050 BS Engie's full rotation vs. a 650 BS Engie? What's the difference for one-off skills?

The survivability issue is meant to be covered by a guard; I get that. You're not meant to be tanking damage with this build. I envision it played much more slayer-esc.

[Darks63]

What i mean is weapon skill ultimately fails to bring up your DPS. The difference in damage it brings is pretty small on heavily armored targets,tank healers, and it makes no difference vs squishies.

[dansari]

What i mean is weapon skill ultimately fails to bring up your DPS. The difference in damage it brings is pretty small on heavily armored targets,tank healers, and it makes no difference vs squishies.

I believe this is true for Engy, but not for SW, since you can get a lot of WS from IA and if you're Assault... Wrist Slash and Assault Stance. You get a ton of WS and it does make a difference, but with Engy you can't stack it as easily since you're tactic starved already, so stacking BS for the corp abilities is a better way to go.

[Elio]

What i mean is weapon skill ultimately fails to bring up your DPS. The difference in damage it brings is pretty small on heavily armored targets,tank healers, and it makes no difference vs squishies.

Not sure if I totally follow here. Are you agreeing with me then that dropping WS is the way to go for a DPS TInkerer and Grenadier Engie or advocating for something else?

[RuffRyder]

Hi,

first of all Darks63 is right when saying that you lose survivability, but higher WS can pay off, for that you should check Lesti's Information HERE:

Spoiler:

What is about Weapon skill: Updated 04.06.2018
Weapon skill (WS) is reducing the enemies armor. But recent tests with the formula and ingame show a horrible increase in DPS vs several Targets. BUT getting more WS instead of BS has a point in the game.
For example. At 600 BS you have the choice to put in 20 BS or 20 WS. 20 Bs gives you more DPS, (should be 4) and 20 WS gives you more Armor Penetration. So of your Physical Damage more comes through. This "more Through" is overall at 600 BS LESS then simply going +20BS.
BUT at around 800 BS more BS and more WS get at an Break Even Point. Meaning the extra on +20 BS is the same like getting +20 WS. Meaning extra Damage (BS) is the same as not extra damage but more armor strike through (WS).
So up to 800 BS you can go straight there and put in more BS Talis. From 800 BS you can split up. And if you are close to the Softcap (~1050 BS) you should definitely go to more WS.
Also remember that WS only helps on physical Damage. Not on your Corporeal Grenadier and Tinkerer Stuff. Well it does something on Shotgun or Frag Grenade. But the bread and butter of your Tinkerer/Grenadier is Corporeal Damage.

While leveling my Engi I nearly every few days ran a different spec and tested many things inbetween after deciding that I want to run more tanky.
I tend to run rather mobile in WBs and SCs, for that you essentially need Well-Oiled Machine and mostly will use Flame Turret, because without any significant turret boni you will miss some benefits.
I'd rather not take Expert Skirmisher, maybe one defensive tactic for it.

Regarding damage output the question is do you rather want to have more dmg in a specific spot (Magnet, Rod, etc.) or more AoE range/radius (more in Grenadier)? I'd always take Napalm over Rod.
I'm doing way more damage with grenades that with Rod and often take Keg, which in combination with regen from e.g. Merc and Jewelry can be viable, or combine Beastlord with Dominator so you got a bunch more wounds.
With Wounds talis I reach 600+ while still having around 900 BS and 400 WS.
If I push it as far as I can with losing some survivability through renown it goes with 1000 BS and 500 WS, but that's more for a ranged playstyle than Skirmishing.
Never use Fightin' Chance though in WB play.

Also Tracer Rounds is rather a choice for ranged, because it only makes sense when maxing out Crit with renown, too, losing even more survivability with your planned playstyle.

All in all I also decided to put renown not in avoidance (Parry/Dodge/Disrupt) but in Crit Reduction. You can easily get it under 0%, with full FS even to -15% or more and I lived much longer that way. I also recommend Winds Impervious set for defense.

Those are my thoughts so far, still trying out things, because I'm working on full Domi and didn't wear Conq yet, mabye it helps a bit.

[Glorian]

The Problem with Rod is, that it is allway's stuck on its 30 feet.

Every other Ability gets an boost from he Flame turret in Range and Increased Target Cap.

Like: Blunderbuss, Friction Burn, Static Discharge, Phoshporous Shells, Acid bomb, Frag Grenade. They all get a Range increase on their AOE part but Grenades and Phoshphor can only be used on 30-40 feet because Flame debuffs your range to apply things.

And like said above. With Phosphourus shells you can have an almoste Physical Free rotation, all doing Corporeal Damage. So Go max BS and then put the rest in Wounds, Armor, Toughness.

[peterthepan3]

Can't really see myself ever using ES over another tactic tbh.