[Shaman] What the edge over AM now?

[defleshed]

Whats your opinion on the subject matter now?

[dalinvar]

Whats your opinion on the subject matter now?

still hard to spec dps for shammy

[Telen]

I think Shaman really needs access to the 3s Bunch of Waaagh tactic that AM gets.

[Foomy44]

I luv my dps shamy and actually think he's in a decent place atm (Gork's Barbs buff was very nice for rvr IMO, mechanic change means I can actually heal other people which is great, moving puddle means I can totally ignore the heal tree and go higher in dps now, main buff recently though was getting rid of guardian WLs) but Da Waaagh! Is Coming could use some love IMO. It does good damage sure but the combo of 80 foot range, 2second cast time that breaks on LoS, and 5 sec CD makes it real clunky to use effectively in the places it should shine (large scale RvR). I've seen people defend it saying to pair it with CD reduction to make it spammable but even when I'm running around in a group with a BO for that exact purpose and trying my hardest to utilize that buff while it's up it still seems pretty rare that I get to get off more than maybe 2 casts during the 10second duration of that buff (plus range and cast time are the bigger issue IMO).

Being 80 feet from a zerg means you need to reposition yourself constantly and can only attack their very front lines usually. Also means if they were doing anything but running away there's is a good chance you are getting focused before the cast time is up. Anyone that close that looks like a good target (not a SnB and at least a little low on HP) has a good chance of trying to run during the 2 second cast time and breaking LoS/range. It's a strong ability and I love the flavor, just wish it was a little easier to use at times. Think I'd gladly take something like 1.5 second cast time instead of 2 and increasing the CD to 8 seconds instead of 5 (little easier to get casts off but less casts total, even with BO buff it would be 3sec CD which is a little weaker in theory but in practice you might get more casts off with quicker casts and 1.5ish seconds to reposition between casts). Maybe even a 10% strikethru bonus on it since it is top of dps mastery tree and Shammy is still the only caster in the game with no strikethru anything/undefendable attacks/160 int tactic and 8sec CD is a potential dps nerf. I'm not a huge fan of balancing it around always having a BO around (especially since AM aoe isn't tied to that idea in any way far as I know) but that seems to be what the devs are going for with it

viewtopic.php?f=109&t=28062&p=318384#p318379

Not breaking the cast on losing LoS or enemy going out of range would also fix the problem IMO, that happens way too often.

Outside of that class is in a decent spot atm but I also don't really get why AM needed all the buffs, especially the aoe tactic, seems they have a lot easier time pulling off AoE with 100FT range on forked radiant lancing (which I assume is also healing them for more now with arcing power because of more AoE targets so even easier for them to stand still and spam it than shammy aoe) and 100ft range and friendly target on their 13 pt dps ability, neither of them requiring a CD reduction to work well.

[Telen]

Nobody uses arcing power in a dps build.

[Foomy44]

Nobody uses arcing power in a dps build.

Wasn't sure, haven't played one since live back when LotD was newish and even though I could only aoe 3 targets with lance it worked extremely well IMO. DPS on a hybrid doesn't have to mean pure glass cannon and ignoring all utility, if the lifesteals on it are good and you are good at switching your defensive targets to keep the heals going to people that need it I don't see how getting lifesteal for 1 tactic would be used by nobody, I use transference on my DPS zealot 100% of the time and would continue to do so even if they dropped the strikethru. I would definitely slot it on my shammy plenty too if I had the option to.

[Telen]

Its a waste of a tactic slot. If someone needs more than transfers and hot you have running, you lifetap. Arcing from a aoe lance, thats 2 tactic slots just to pull off a fluff heal from your aoe and losing crit+ or strikethrough, inst going to make much difference. Ive tried it multiple times in different builds here and pn live. Only time I found it worthwhile was in BE lifetap spam builds. If it was 50% or higher it might be a different story but at 25% its just fluff, much better to keep your crit and strikethrough.

[Arteker616]

People should really stop making whine threads like these. Shaman racial tactics is what gives them a defensive edge over AM. In small scale you can rather easily train an AM down, but you have practically no chance against a shaman. For Warband play you have an unique AoE morale pump and the same two AoE heals as the AM.

Champions challange and GG.

The difference, is the aoe pumps rely on you hittin, to get the pumps, am one dosnt have that limit, and since u can get m2 on 4 seconds using it u can mega pump faster to get these m2 going for ur tanks ,

The difference btw both when it come to aoe heals is simple, Wild healing , despite nerf, still gives am a total superiority over shaman , wich with changes on ap drain ahs become even harder to fixt.

[Einherja]

Ugly char -> ugly skills. Everything fine

[Foomy44]

Its a waste of a tactic slot. If someone needs more than transfers and hot you have running, you lifetap. Arcing from a aoe lance, thats 2 tactic slots just to pull off a fluff heal from your aoe and losing crit+ or strikethrough, inst going to make much difference. Ive tried it multiple times in different builds here and pn live. Only time I found it worthwhile was in BE lifetap spam builds. If it was 50% or higher it might be a different story but at 25% its just fluff, much better to keep your crit and strikethrough.

I was under the impression you take the AoE tactic to do good AoE in RvR, would hardly consider that a wasted tactic slot with or without arcing power. Like I said I don't play one now but I find it hard to believe that your single target nuke being upgraded to hit everything within 20 feet and still having no CD is strictly fluff damage (not that you called the damage fluff but you heavily implied it by saying the aoe tactic would only be taken to help with the aoe healing, not to enable good aoe damage in itself). I find it hard to argue that your strikethrough is a core tactic you can't give up when 100% of my shammy playtime has been spent with no strike tactic slotted.

I agree 25% is low, didn't realize that was where it was at, but I'm also fairly certain it has the potential for a lot more aoe lifetapping than the 50% zealot version, zealots only core DD aoe attack has a 5 sec CD and is PBAOE so you have to be in the middle of a zerg to hit max targets with it, and the other 2 AoEs are long CD, high up the aoe mastery tree, and shorter than 100ft range also. No way to spam AoE DD nonstop, and also im 99% sure the base damage on all those attacks is lower than Radiant Lance.