Concussive Mine version for Magus

[peterthepan3]

List please, not the ones that both Magus and Engie share.

Clever Recovery, Proximity Alarm, Hand-Crafted Scope (50% AA on a 1h vs other tactics, AA subject to being stationary dependent on spec, physical damage not being prioritised by Grenadiers that much at all), Stubbornness, Bandolier, Quick Reloader (seriously - the class has too many AP tactics that are all rendered useless by Extra Ammo), Stopping Power (just why?).

100ft from turret and where my tactic for daemonolgy, maw?

Again, let's ignore the fact that Demonology Magus can crit for 1k+ with Infernal Blast - an AoE DoT - with Surging Power.

It's not like Path of Tinkerer was changes from physical to Magic. Did the dev also change the amount of damage to reflect the change btw ?

Corrected a typo for you. Also, Blunderbuss = Physical, and Blunderbuss spam will be the majority of your AoE pressure once your DoTs are rolling. Whereas the Magus can debuff his Essence damage type (Spirit), the Engineer must bring an RP for AoE Armor Debuff, as well as stack Weapon Skill in order to bypass a lot of enemy mitigation - Weapon Skill that does nothing for your Corporeal dots.

375 damage bubble that will proc 25 times on 100 hits on a base 1 000 while applying the usual correction and including that it can only proc once every 3s? Engie AA critts and hit for around 1k btw, byebye bubble.

If you are getting crit for 1k damage from 1H AAs, then you are not using a proper defensive spec to capitalise on the bubble whatsoever, i.e. high toughness/wounds. See my previous point re the importance of checking these things out thoroughly.

Yes, it's good and it also does damage that can be mitigated. Amazing isn't it.

...you don't take the Morale for the damage, you take it for the snare. Why should it both snare and deal high damage?

2 targets, already talked about it. Your logs please to have a constant 1.8k net damage spam with FrF and not on dumies.

Debuff a target with your pet's Elemental Debuff, or better yet, get a Shaman to apply AoE Elemental Debuff: apply dots, multidot Baleful, pop FM, and spam FRF. Try it! It's particularly useful for PvE.

That's why I asked as I wasn't convinced the career builder was accurate. That's worng in my book and the SM should get that tactic back, whatever the destro whiners have to say about it. It would also fit the SM's gameplay in Hoeth I think.

We can find some common ground here as I too yhink Order should have access to either a Morale Drain or AoE KD, I just don't think the SM is the class that should have it when you factor in what they already provide to a WB setting.

Fair point on the career builder. I think there's a few things that are outdated.

[Tankbeardz]

"Clever Recovery, Proximity Alarm, Hand-Crafted Scope (50% AA on a 1h vs other tactics, AA subject to being stationary dependent on spec, physical damage not being prioritised by Grenadiers that much at all), Stubbornness, Bandolier, Quick Reloader (seriously - the class has too many AP tactics that are all rendered useless by Extra Ammo), Stopping Power (just why?)."
Stopping power was great when there was no punt immunity (beginning of live) and you could chain punts...that's the only reason it's there.

"Again, let's ignore the fact that Demonology Magus can crit for 1k+ with Infernal Blast - an AoE DoT - with Surging Power."
Surging power is great with the tactic but engi gets static discharge to go with their pbaoe dot...it's a wash in my book.

"Corrected a typo for you. Also, Blunderbuss = Physical, and Blunderbuss spam will be the majority of your AoE pressure once your DoTs are rolling. Whereas the Magus can debuff his Essence damage type (Spirit), the Engineer must bring an RP for AoE Armor Debuff, as well as stack Weapon Skill in order to bypass a lot of enemy mitigation - Weapon Skill that does nothing for your Corporeal dots."
If you are spamming blunderbuss, you are doing it wrong.

Engi gets focused fire core so they have more ST burst to finish off low health targets that they have aoe'd down and allowing for better build variations.

After testing on rank 10-11 mobs, it seems like the new engi ability hits harder than the magus. I tested with around 975 main stat for both with 25% crit chance / Full mid tree points / No tactics other than main stat (intel/bal) / 8 pet damage stacks.

The engi was hitting around 875 non crit / 1200-1300 crit and the magus was hitting around 675 non crit / 1000 crit (stealth nerf a few patches back?). Unfortunately, I can't validate on a test dummies with these abilities.

Also, the radius seems to be much larger than the 20ft advertised on the engi.

[peterthepan3]

"Clever Recovery, Proximity Alarm, Hand-Crafted Scope (50% AA on a 1h vs other tactics, AA subject to being stationary dependent on spec, physical damage not being prioritised by Grenadiers that much at all), Stubbornness, Bandolier, Quick Reloader (seriously - the class has too many AP tactics that are all rendered useless by Extra Ammo), Stopping Power (just why?)."
Stopping power was great when there was no punt immunity (beginning of live) and you could chain punts...that's the only reason it's there.

Sure - but that's no longer the case here, hence why the tactic is a waste of a slot. Note: some of those tactics aren't necessarily bad (just like the Magus ones), but they just don't see the light of day because they are either made redundant by better tactics, or simply can't compete with other alternatives.

Surging power is great with the tactic but engi gets static discharge to go with their pbaoe dot...it's a wash in my book.

That's a fair point.

If you are spamming blunderbuss, you are doing it wrong.

'Once your dots are rolling': if you have a WW SM in your WB then you can benefit from SD more, but assuming you are bringing an RP for AoE Armor Debuff (which you should be for slayers, if not engis), BB will be hitting for very good numbers. It's a filler, just like Essence Lash.

Engi gets focused fire core so they have more ST burst to finish off low health targets that they have aoe'd down and allowing for better build variations.

Rifleman Engineer is perfectly suited to assisting a WL or IB because of this, and Focused Fire with WW is beast. Havoc Magus burst potential still greater than Rifleman, though.


As I said, both classes have their pros and cons (like the ones you mentioned), which is why it's important to look at the issue from an impartial lens (which I know you are doing as you play both classes at a high level).Curious how the new Engi Firestorm is playing out.

[Tankbeardz]

'Once your dots are rolling': if you have a WW SM in your WB then you can benefit from SD more, but assuming you are bringing an RP for AoE Armor Debuff (which you should be for slayers, if not engis), BB will be hitting for very good numbers. It's a filler, just like Essence Lash.
The difference is that engi doesn't need BB at all.

Pull spec: Pull, Lightning Rod while in flight, pbaoe dot, static dischage, after pull I like to throw in strafing run as insta AOE damage at times and it hits harder than BB. At that point its probably down to ST finishers since they are going to be running like mad or dead.

Magus just has lash now if you go pull spec since IFOC is a freaking 13 pt ability. It hits way harder than BB and can be spammed.

I would argue that engi damage is much faster than magus so it kind of evens out on the burst side for all but the heaviest armored targets (tanks / med armor healers with armor talis). 1 second focused fire damage vs 2 second IFOC damage makes a huge difference.

As far as the phos shells changed...damage and range needs to be tweaked or something. I saw an entire warband of destro sitting in the back of the bottom floor because a few engis were spamming it. Maybe it is coincidence...but I think the new phos shells had a part to play.

[Crumbs]

Now back to phos shekels new engi ability revision, It kinda sucks:

-now it hits for less than a firebomb every -2- seconds
-cannot be cast on the move at all
-no dot aspect and a potential dps loss as a grenade turret boosts grenade dot tick speed by 40%.
-does not snare
-you have to be standing even for the first tick to land, otherwise it wont register and still set the ability on CD anyways

[Grunbag]

Now back to phos shekels new engi ability revision, It kinda sucks:

-now it hits for less than a firebomb every -2- seconds
-cannot be cast on the move at all
-no dot aspect and a potential dps loss as a grenade turret boosts grenade dot tick speed by 40%.
-does not snare
-you have to be standing even for the first tick to land, otherwise it wont register and still set the ability on CD anyways

It’s the exact copy of TF except it cannot be casted on the move .

[roadkillrobin]

CM still stacking? I think Mara isn't.
However, I belive the CM should stay Engie and order exclusive. It's kinda a signature skill for them that makes em stand out.

[Crumbs]

Now back to phos shekels new engi ability revision, It kinda sucks:

-now it hits for less than a firebomb every -2- seconds
-cannot be cast on the move at all
-no dot aspect and a potential dps loss as a grenade turret boosts grenade dot tick speed by 40%.
-does not snare (?)
-you have to be standing even for the first tick to land, otherwise it wont register and still set the ability on CD anyways

It’s the exact copy of TF except it cannot be casted on the move .

So, it is by no means the exact copy.
ideas about how we can make the new phos shells better. I have a few to start with;

- bring back old phos shells. I'm sure the intention of the new phos shells was to make it at least a little bit better, its not
- allow the first tick of the ability to land even whilst moving, this is how it usually works for all channeled abilities like focused fire and ifoc, and it even worked like so in the first iteration of the new phos shells.

[DanielWinner]

Phosphorus Shells is potent as it is. The skill is a perfect pug buster.

[Crumbs]

Phosphorus Shells is potent as it is. The skill is a perfect pug buster.

Yes when the rare occasion shows itself on pugs, but players have learning capacity, not hard to outsmart this move even as a solo player.

My suggestion fixes weren't unreasonable. I'm saying that the ability is worse than it ever was from a mobility standpoint.

All my hours on engi specs specifically for sc/rvr, so no theories, the ability could do with a fix. Allowing the first tick to land and then cancelling like any normal channeled ability seems logical. Otherwise imagine every other channel working how phos shells (and only phos shells) does atm for a laugh.

and i doubt it would be picked up on quickly (tricky to pick up on)