Welcome back for round two of the Tank Morale Overhaul thread. This time I'm taking the job of typing all this crap up so you guys can bless us with your salt. Please be speaking the English gooder and make the words format nicerly so we can read things the bestest. If you post low-effort junk, it's real easy to ignore and move on. If you post a mega-wall of feedback, I may go blind and/or forcefully remove my eyes. Try to stick to one class at a time that you know best, or don't. I'm just trying to get you guys to help us guys.
After the last thread we took about 10 pages of feedback and tried to compress them down into common concerns. We also had some questions about how some of the abilities were worded, so those will be cleaned up as well. Definitely not posting the amazing technicolor screenshot spreadsheet this time, so you will have to use your imagination for what fresh hellscape it looks like now. In the previous thread we may have accidentally used the base damage values for career specific Morales, which made them seem a lot worse than they actually are, but for all the ones we're looking at, there's at least some room for improvement.
I'll go to go into more detail on why some of these changes are being pushed and some of the soft rules we're thinking about when constructing stuff like this into the future (there's three more archtypes to go!). Fitting into this same timeframe are changes to how morale is generated, which have started with a few patches to base rates. More to come on that front concerning pumps and drains. Please don't discuss pumps/drains in this thread, we're trying to keep it cohesive to the efficiency and usefulness of Morale abilities, not the rate they're gained. Yes, we can process these things separately and we intend to.
Also, try to keep the personal attacks to yourselves. Devs don't care how dumb you think they are, and my hammer-finger has been itchy lately anyway. If something is clearly an error, just point it out. I'm not above making mistakes, and they can be fixed so we can move on and have lovely productive discussions.
Core Morales
Spoiler:
M4 - Immaculate Defense
Current - 75% damage reduction for group members within 100' for 10s
Proposed - 60% damage reduction for group members within 100' for 10s
This one is simple, ID is overperforming compared to spec'd M4's. We want the spec choices at the top of the tree to be better options, and part of this is toning down the existing core morale.
M3 - Raze
Current - 65' Cone, deals 300dmg per second for 4 ticks (1200 damage)
Proposed - Same - but will require a 2-handed weapon. Boooo hissss.
Concern around Raze was that PvE tanks will lose a critical tool for dealing with Hate. However, we've tested and have received targeted feedback that existing tools are sufficient without running Raze to control hate. Plenty of tanks don't run Raze in PvE to control aggro, and provided your team is doing their part with detaunts and managing their DPS levels it's not a problem. Raze makes it much easier for a main tank to be absolute about aggro control, but we want that responsibility to be on the mind of any player in PvE content.
The other lesser concern was a loss of DPS during warband level situations, however we feel that Raze is not the appropriate tool for main tanks in these situations. If you want to morale bomb large groups, your 2-handed spec will have to do, or rely on your DPS classes to bring the bomb damage. That's what they exist for.
M3 - Clear the Skies - NEW
Previous - Grants a Hold the Line buff to your group for 12s - rejected
Proposed - Grants a 3000pt Absorb for Magic/Ranged damage for group members within 100' for 12s - Shield Required
The thought behind a shield-only morale was to provide defenses to your group. Using Hold The Line was a bit lazy and considering tanks already have this available and spammed pretty frequently during warband situations didn't really fit the need. Also some people assumed we were removing the existing Hold The Line ability, which was not the case. It was just a placeholder name as it would carry a similar effect. Alternatively, a 3000pt ranged damage absorb will allow a push into funnel situations, excluding melee from the absorb allows counterplay from the frontline. This will not negate morale damage.
M2 - Shield Wall
Unchanged
M2 - Distracting Bellow
Current - Range 100', target and enemies within 30' of target have damage reduced by 50% for 10s
Proposed - 50' radius from user, enemies have damage reduced by 40% for 10s
Concerns around this morale was the significant reduction of range with the previous proposal. However, one of the reasons we proposed this in the first place was due to the range being very odd to begin with. Shouts simply don't work as a long range targeted AOE, and tanks really don't need to be 100' away from a target to make it effective. Instead of a 30' Cone effect, this has been adjusted to a 50' radius from the tank. This can be used while closing in on the backline, as tanks like to do, or to bring an enemy melee train to a grind with their damage dropping off. Both use cases should be easy enough to pull off.
Core M1's are unchanged
Could Demolishing Strike use a damage buff? Probably, but it's really used for the very significant Armor debuff, so no change needed.
Does Champ Challenge need anything at all? Risk/reward is appropriate, misplays are punishing and quick to learn proper timing and use cases.
Current - 75% damage reduction for group members within 100' for 10s
Proposed - 60% damage reduction for group members within 100' for 10s
This one is simple, ID is overperforming compared to spec'd M4's. We want the spec choices at the top of the tree to be better options, and part of this is toning down the existing core morale.
M3 - Raze
Current - 65' Cone, deals 300dmg per second for 4 ticks (1200 damage)
Proposed - Same - but will require a 2-handed weapon. Boooo hissss.
Concern around Raze was that PvE tanks will lose a critical tool for dealing with Hate. However, we've tested and have received targeted feedback that existing tools are sufficient without running Raze to control hate. Plenty of tanks don't run Raze in PvE to control aggro, and provided your team is doing their part with detaunts and managing their DPS levels it's not a problem. Raze makes it much easier for a main tank to be absolute about aggro control, but we want that responsibility to be on the mind of any player in PvE content.
The other lesser concern was a loss of DPS during warband level situations, however we feel that Raze is not the appropriate tool for main tanks in these situations. If you want to morale bomb large groups, your 2-handed spec will have to do, or rely on your DPS classes to bring the bomb damage. That's what they exist for.
M3 - Clear the Skies - NEW
Previous - Grants a Hold the Line buff to your group for 12s - rejected
Proposed - Grants a 3000pt Absorb for Magic/Ranged damage for group members within 100' for 12s - Shield Required
The thought behind a shield-only morale was to provide defenses to your group. Using Hold The Line was a bit lazy and considering tanks already have this available and spammed pretty frequently during warband situations didn't really fit the need. Also some people assumed we were removing the existing Hold The Line ability, which was not the case. It was just a placeholder name as it would carry a similar effect. Alternatively, a 3000pt ranged damage absorb will allow a push into funnel situations, excluding melee from the absorb allows counterplay from the frontline. This will not negate morale damage.
M2 - Shield Wall
Unchanged
M2 - Distracting Bellow
Current - Range 100', target and enemies within 30' of target have damage reduced by 50% for 10s
Proposed - 50' radius from user, enemies have damage reduced by 40% for 10s
Concerns around this morale was the significant reduction of range with the previous proposal. However, one of the reasons we proposed this in the first place was due to the range being very odd to begin with. Shouts simply don't work as a long range targeted AOE, and tanks really don't need to be 100' away from a target to make it effective. Instead of a 30' Cone effect, this has been adjusted to a 50' radius from the tank. This can be used while closing in on the backline, as tanks like to do, or to bring an enemy melee train to a grind with their damage dropping off. Both use cases should be easy enough to pull off.
Core M1's are unchanged
Could Demolishing Strike use a damage buff? Probably, but it's really used for the very significant Armor debuff, so no change needed.
Does Champ Challenge need anything at all? Risk/reward is appropriate, misplays are punishing and quick to learn proper timing and use cases.
Class Specific Morales
Black Orc
Spoiler:
One of the concerns we noted for Black Orc is that the right tree is simply too good with the addition of the Mor' Choppin' Dem tactic that gives WAAAAGH! a cooldown decreaser. This was swapped with No Choppin' Me which is now a Core tactic that causes the Follow 'me Lead's Weaponskill buff to apply to nearby groupmates. It was a reasonable change at the time to add something much better high into the tree, although it does impose significantly on the Chop Fasta' skill which has a worse cooldown. This is overdue for adjustment, but it's not a factor we are going to address when it comes to balancing the Morales themselves. So, with that being acknowledged, we can continue under the pretense that we're comparing the spec M4's against the Core M4 players use by default.
M4 - Puddle of Muck - DPS Tree
Current - 1800dmg over 15s in a 40' line attack with a 40% snare for 15s (5 dot ticks for 360 every 3s)
Proposed - 1200dmg instant in a 40' line, with 3200dmg over 16s and 40% snare for 16s (8 dot ticks for 400 every 2s)
Damage was still too low with the previous proposal, however we want to make sure that DPS classes are responsible for burst damage in situations that call for it. The proposed 3200 damage over 16s as an uncleansable DOT (as morales should be doing) comes out to 200 damage per second, which is fine for undefendable damage. Current damage is 130 per second. We're going to scale other Morale dots based on the damage per second, rather than total damage, as some of them look like a big number but have poor results over long durations as they're easily healed through. 200dps would be considered about mid-range of what's possible outside of a channelled ability. (e.g. Hail of Doom at 600dps or Raze at 300dps)
Also if we're able to implement it would be to make it persistent ground damage instead of an applied dot, similar to Engi Napalm or Magus Mist. This would provide a bit of area denial for funnel situations.
M4 - Can't Touch Us - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, +200 AP and 4500 absorb for 15s
Unchanged
The initial proposal was to make sure this is equivalent to the Swordmaster M4, but spec points in the tree weren't taken into consideration at the time. Why spec points matter for an ability at the top of the tree doesn't make a lot of sense, but the effects do match anyway. If anything we may clear up the tooltip to reflect the fully specced effect of the ability, along with other M4's. There's no reason for the tooltips to scale in the tree if they're already at the top.
M4 - Yer Nothin' - Utility Tree
Current - 1800dmg over 12s and enemies lose "30 seconds" of morale over 12 seconds within 30'
Proposed - Reduce user speed by 50%, deal 300 damage per second for 8 seconds and knockback players 3' within 20' while this is being channeled. Knockback does not trigger immunities.
As an M4, we're hoping to see a fairly visceral impact when you press the button. This alternative would be similar to the Squig Herder charge ability, allowing the BO to become an unstoppable force and push straight through a funnel knocking everyone out of the way and ticking some decent morale damage in the process.
M3 - Deafening Bellow
Current - 1200 damage within 30' and a 5s silence
Proposed - 1500 damage within 30' and a 1s buildup time for 10s
Damage bumped up, but we're keeping the buildup time debuff. This is instant damage, so the effectiveness would be better than Raze for burst damage which would give Black Orc one of the better M3's for damage spikes. Based on the inital feedback over buildup time, I don't feel enough explanation was given. The 1s buildup time would apply to all abilities, even instant casts would have a short buildup time, which would cause a rather annoying (for the enemy) cast bar on anything they try to do. Even with the GCD being less time than the buildup, the delay imposed would interfere with melee attacks and instant casts that rely on being able to chain abilities together.
M2 - Walk It Off
Current - 100' party buff, increase Toughness by 160 for 30s
Proposed - 100' party buff, reduce incoming crit damage by 25% for 20s
The scaling effectiveness of a Toughness buff on your party, even when stacking with other Toughness buffs. Crit damage reduction would play a significant role in damage mitigation no matter what stage of the game you're in. Also, reducing the buff duration from 30s to 20s is more appropriate for the use of an M2. This will be one of many themes as we go through poking at each of the Morales up for discussion.
M1 - Quit Yer Squabblin'
Current - 100' party buff, 10% parry and dodge for 30s
Proposed - Buff self and defensive target, 15% parry and dodge for 20s
This gets us down to a point where looking at M1's we consider what base level of efficiency they have. The Core M1's are generally single target or self buffs. With Black Orc and Swordmaster however, these are group buffs, BO in particular with a very long duration. This is clearly out of place and far stronger in effect than other archtypes. Instead of a group buff, this will be self and defensive target, with a 5% bump in effectiveness, but only for 20s instead of 30s.
M4 - Puddle of Muck - DPS Tree
Current - 1800dmg over 15s in a 40' line attack with a 40% snare for 15s (5 dot ticks for 360 every 3s)
Proposed - 1200dmg instant in a 40' line, with 3200dmg over 16s and 40% snare for 16s (8 dot ticks for 400 every 2s)
Damage was still too low with the previous proposal, however we want to make sure that DPS classes are responsible for burst damage in situations that call for it. The proposed 3200 damage over 16s as an uncleansable DOT (as morales should be doing) comes out to 200 damage per second, which is fine for undefendable damage. Current damage is 130 per second. We're going to scale other Morale dots based on the damage per second, rather than total damage, as some of them look like a big number but have poor results over long durations as they're easily healed through. 200dps would be considered about mid-range of what's possible outside of a channelled ability. (e.g. Hail of Doom at 600dps or Raze at 300dps)
Also if we're able to implement it would be to make it persistent ground damage instead of an applied dot, similar to Engi Napalm or Magus Mist. This would provide a bit of area denial for funnel situations.
M4 - Can't Touch Us - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, +200 AP and 4500 absorb for 15s
Unchanged
The initial proposal was to make sure this is equivalent to the Swordmaster M4, but spec points in the tree weren't taken into consideration at the time. Why spec points matter for an ability at the top of the tree doesn't make a lot of sense, but the effects do match anyway. If anything we may clear up the tooltip to reflect the fully specced effect of the ability, along with other M4's. There's no reason for the tooltips to scale in the tree if they're already at the top.
M4 - Yer Nothin' - Utility Tree
Current - 1800dmg over 12s and enemies lose "30 seconds" of morale over 12 seconds within 30'
Proposed - Reduce user speed by 50%, deal 300 damage per second for 8 seconds and knockback players 3' within 20' while this is being channeled. Knockback does not trigger immunities.
As an M4, we're hoping to see a fairly visceral impact when you press the button. This alternative would be similar to the Squig Herder charge ability, allowing the BO to become an unstoppable force and push straight through a funnel knocking everyone out of the way and ticking some decent morale damage in the process.
M3 - Deafening Bellow
Current - 1200 damage within 30' and a 5s silence
Proposed - 1500 damage within 30' and a 1s buildup time for 10s
Damage bumped up, but we're keeping the buildup time debuff. This is instant damage, so the effectiveness would be better than Raze for burst damage which would give Black Orc one of the better M3's for damage spikes. Based on the inital feedback over buildup time, I don't feel enough explanation was given. The 1s buildup time would apply to all abilities, even instant casts would have a short buildup time, which would cause a rather annoying (for the enemy) cast bar on anything they try to do. Even with the GCD being less time than the buildup, the delay imposed would interfere with melee attacks and instant casts that rely on being able to chain abilities together.
M2 - Walk It Off
Current - 100' party buff, increase Toughness by 160 for 30s
Proposed - 100' party buff, reduce incoming crit damage by 25% for 20s
The scaling effectiveness of a Toughness buff on your party, even when stacking with other Toughness buffs. Crit damage reduction would play a significant role in damage mitigation no matter what stage of the game you're in. Also, reducing the buff duration from 30s to 20s is more appropriate for the use of an M2. This will be one of many themes as we go through poking at each of the Morales up for discussion.
M1 - Quit Yer Squabblin'
Current - 100' party buff, 10% parry and dodge for 30s
Proposed - Buff self and defensive target, 15% parry and dodge for 20s
This gets us down to a point where looking at M1's we consider what base level of efficiency they have. The Core M1's are generally single target or self buffs. With Black Orc and Swordmaster however, these are group buffs, BO in particular with a very long duration. This is clearly out of place and far stronger in effect than other archtypes. Instead of a group buff, this will be self and defensive target, with a 5% bump in effectiveness, but only for 20s instead of 30s.
Chosen
Spoiler:
M4 - Warping Embrace - DPS Tree
Current - 40' line, 369dmg ?? with a 40% snare for 15s
Proposed - 40' line, 1200dmg with a 40% snare for 15s
This was probably supposed to be a DoT ticking for 369 damage every couple of seconds, but it really is set to 369 flat damage in the client, so who knows what Mythic was thinking with this one. 1200 instant damage with a nice beefy snare is much more appropriate.
M4 - Sprout Carapace - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, +100 AP instant with 1320 armor and 504 all resists for 30s
Unchanged
M4 - Shatter Faith - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1200dmg and dispel 1 blessing
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, 1200dmg and reduce enemy crit chance by 20% for 15s (morale debuffs are not cleansable)
The previous proposal had this mirroring the KotBS Solar Flare that drained all morale (that one is changing as well), but due to the pumps available to Chosen, it didn't make sense for the mirror M4 to go here. Instead, reducing enemy crit chance by a hefty amount should be more impactful and unique for an M4. Dispelling a single blessing was just meh.
M3 - Impenetrable Armor
Current - Self 7200 absorb for 20s
Unchanged
M2 - Tzeentch's Amplification
Current - Self increase incoming healing by 300% for 15s
Unchanged
The previous iteration we were interested in getting a different effect for this, but feedback was largely positive for the existing effect. I suppose if you're not using a shield *cough cough* this would be your replacement for Shield Wall. The only interesting change we saw suggested was to make it splash heals off the Chosen to nearby allies. This might be techincally possible, but I don't think anything else currently has an effect like that.
M1 - Inevitable Changing
Current - 600dmg, restores AP to full
Proposed - 900dmg, restores AP to full
This is put up against Demolishing Strike, which is a very potent armor debuff and allows everyone to deal more damage to your target. With an extra 300 damage for burst potential, it would be on par with other M1's that have minor effects tied to them.
Current - 40' line, 369dmg ?? with a 40% snare for 15s
Proposed - 40' line, 1200dmg with a 40% snare for 15s
This was probably supposed to be a DoT ticking for 369 damage every couple of seconds, but it really is set to 369 flat damage in the client, so who knows what Mythic was thinking with this one. 1200 instant damage with a nice beefy snare is much more appropriate.
M4 - Sprout Carapace - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, +100 AP instant with 1320 armor and 504 all resists for 30s
Unchanged
M4 - Shatter Faith - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1200dmg and dispel 1 blessing
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, 1200dmg and reduce enemy crit chance by 20% for 15s (morale debuffs are not cleansable)
The previous proposal had this mirroring the KotBS Solar Flare that drained all morale (that one is changing as well), but due to the pumps available to Chosen, it didn't make sense for the mirror M4 to go here. Instead, reducing enemy crit chance by a hefty amount should be more impactful and unique for an M4. Dispelling a single blessing was just meh.
M3 - Impenetrable Armor
Current - Self 7200 absorb for 20s
Unchanged
M2 - Tzeentch's Amplification
Current - Self increase incoming healing by 300% for 15s
Unchanged
The previous iteration we were interested in getting a different effect for this, but feedback was largely positive for the existing effect. I suppose if you're not using a shield *cough cough* this would be your replacement for Shield Wall. The only interesting change we saw suggested was to make it splash heals off the Chosen to nearby allies. This might be techincally possible, but I don't think anything else currently has an effect like that.
M1 - Inevitable Changing
Current - 600dmg, restores AP to full
Proposed - 900dmg, restores AP to full
This is put up against Demolishing Strike, which is a very potent armor debuff and allows everyone to deal more damage to your target. With an extra 300 damage for burst potential, it would be on par with other M1's that have minor effects tied to them.
Blackguard
Spoiler:
M4 - Blast of Hatred - DPS Tree
Current - 40' line, deals 2400dmg over 15s (480dmg x 5 ticks) with a medium knockback and 40% snare for 15s
Proposed - 40' line, 1800dmg with a medium knockback
Relatively low ticking DoT effects really don't represent a Blast of anything, more like a lingering funk. This should be a solid improvement for burst from the DPS tree. It loses the snare effect for the increased damage, as well as differentiating it from the other tank M4's in these DPS trees.
M4 - Khaine's Warding - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, when any group member blocks heal group for 1200, 10s duration
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 20% for 10s, BG also receives 3000pt absorb for 10s and 100 Hate
The existing M4 was rather odd to have on a tank, and the block requirement was rather limiting as you might be the only tank in the group wielding a cookie sheet. A flat avoidance buff provides a more immediate benefit for the group, and true to form with the Blackguard they get a smaller absorb bubble and Hate refill for themselves.
M4 - In Malekith's Name - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1800dmg and 5s Silence
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, 1200dmg and drain 1200 morale
Adding this in as a mirror for the Solar Flare morale from KotBS fits with this spec line better. It also breaks up direct class mirroring and provides the Blackguard with a good warband level tool to bring to large engagements.
M3 - Armor of Eternal Servitude
Current - Heal self for 2400 over 20s and gain 990 armor over 20s
Proposed - Heal self for 7200 over 20s and gain 990 armor over 20s
Similar tank M3's are triple the value of this heal, and they're an instant absorb effect. Typically we consider burst to be much better than over time effects, so this heal value is getting bumped up to match. The armor value makes up the difference in effectiveness.
M2 - Away Cretins!
Current - 30' PBAOE, deal 600 damage and knockback
Unchanged
M1 - Banish Weakness
Current - Remove all Hex/Curse/Ailments, gain 50AP/200HP for each
Unchanged
Feedback on this ability during the last proposal was very positive for the default version. Going to leave it as is.
Current - 40' line, deals 2400dmg over 15s (480dmg x 5 ticks) with a medium knockback and 40% snare for 15s
Proposed - 40' line, 1800dmg with a medium knockback
Relatively low ticking DoT effects really don't represent a Blast of anything, more like a lingering funk. This should be a solid improvement for burst from the DPS tree. It loses the snare effect for the increased damage, as well as differentiating it from the other tank M4's in these DPS trees.
M4 - Khaine's Warding - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, when any group member blocks heal group for 1200, 10s duration
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 20% for 10s, BG also receives 3000pt absorb for 10s and 100 Hate
The existing M4 was rather odd to have on a tank, and the block requirement was rather limiting as you might be the only tank in the group wielding a cookie sheet. A flat avoidance buff provides a more immediate benefit for the group, and true to form with the Blackguard they get a smaller absorb bubble and Hate refill for themselves.
M4 - In Malekith's Name - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1800dmg and 5s Silence
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, 1200dmg and drain 1200 morale
Adding this in as a mirror for the Solar Flare morale from KotBS fits with this spec line better. It also breaks up direct class mirroring and provides the Blackguard with a good warband level tool to bring to large engagements.
M3 - Armor of Eternal Servitude
Current - Heal self for 2400 over 20s and gain 990 armor over 20s
Proposed - Heal self for 7200 over 20s and gain 990 armor over 20s
Similar tank M3's are triple the value of this heal, and they're an instant absorb effect. Typically we consider burst to be much better than over time effects, so this heal value is getting bumped up to match. The armor value makes up the difference in effectiveness.
M2 - Away Cretins!
Current - 30' PBAOE, deal 600 damage and knockback
Unchanged
M1 - Banish Weakness
Current - Remove all Hex/Curse/Ailments, gain 50AP/200HP for each
Unchanged
Feedback on this ability during the last proposal was very positive for the default version. Going to leave it as is.
Ironbreaker
Spoiler:
M4 - Axe Slam - DPS Tree
Current - 45 degree 65' cone, deal 2400 damage
Unchanged
Not much to say on this. Decent area of effect, great burst damage.
M4 - Strength in Numbers - Tank tree
Current - 100% Block on self, 25% avoidance for party within 100' for 10s
Proposed - 100% Block on self, 20% avoidance for party within 100' for 10s
Full group avoidance effects are really strong, so we're paring this back ever so slightly to fit with other M4's.
M4 - Earthen Renewal - Utility Tree
Current - 100' party buff, heal 1197 (3 ticks for 399 over 3s), add 240 AP.
Proposed - 100' party buff, 250AP over 10s (5 ticks of 50 AP every 2s) and on enemy spell cast deal 400 damage to caster.
This was a pretty terrible heal for an M4 to begin with so that's not much to drop anyway, but feedback did request to keep the AP feed. This will be spread out over 10s along with a magic Riposte type effect for the group. Since this is a morale AP feed, it should not require characters to be idle to tick. Normally AP only regenerates in-between attacks.
M3 - Gromril Plating
Current - 7200 absorb for 20s
Unchanged
Boring! But effective! I would personally think Plating would be something related to armor, but it's just a self absorb bubble. Is that all we need here? Mind you, adding anything to the existing effect would take away from the absorb partially, or entirely depending on the suggestion. This seems fine however.
M2 - Skin of Iron
Current - Damage reduced to 1 for 5s
Proposed - 10s self buff, when attacked in melee disarm attacker for 5s
The existing implementation certainly had some positive feedback (expected as the invlunerability effect is obviously very strong), but there was also some significant confusion about what we meant. Part of what we wanted to change here was the invlunerability factor. Even with Shield Wall, you can still get hit from behind, and this is only an M2. Total damage immunity is pretty questionable for any effect. Limiting the effect to melee attackers would give more coverage than shield wall in the sense that any direction is affected, also prevents attacks from peeling off you and hitting your mates (if they disarmed after the first hit). This wouldn't affect ranged units, which leaves another window of opportunity open for the enemy realm. It's still very much a defensive tool, isn't total cheese, and provides a benefit for your melee groupmates as well as yourself.
M1 - Rock Clutch
Current - 5' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Note - Marauder M1 Flames of Fate, and White Lion M1 Ensnare will be mirrored to this when implemented
When it comes to morales that basically have the same exact effect at different efficiencies, well. Who knows why there's a discrepancy between these three. Some will try to qualify Destro as having better morale pumps, so the Mara one is weaker, but the WL is stronger, and then you have the IB which is far weaker than both of them, but it's on a tank so it's supposed to be? Mara/WL have a full 65' range and IB have 5' because traps and chaos magic are more ranged than rock magic? None of this fits right, Ensnare/FoF are both very strong, so we're squishing them all into a common effect with the same duration, range, and damage, all somewhere in the middle. This ends up being a nice buff for IB, and a nerf for WL and Mara, while bringing all three on par with each other.
Current - 45 degree 65' cone, deal 2400 damage
Unchanged
Not much to say on this. Decent area of effect, great burst damage.
M4 - Strength in Numbers - Tank tree
Current - 100% Block on self, 25% avoidance for party within 100' for 10s
Proposed - 100% Block on self, 20% avoidance for party within 100' for 10s
Full group avoidance effects are really strong, so we're paring this back ever so slightly to fit with other M4's.
M4 - Earthen Renewal - Utility Tree
Current - 100' party buff, heal 1197 (3 ticks for 399 over 3s), add 240 AP.
Proposed - 100' party buff, 250AP over 10s (5 ticks of 50 AP every 2s) and on enemy spell cast deal 400 damage to caster.
This was a pretty terrible heal for an M4 to begin with so that's not much to drop anyway, but feedback did request to keep the AP feed. This will be spread out over 10s along with a magic Riposte type effect for the group. Since this is a morale AP feed, it should not require characters to be idle to tick. Normally AP only regenerates in-between attacks.
M3 - Gromril Plating
Current - 7200 absorb for 20s
Unchanged
Boring! But effective! I would personally think Plating would be something related to armor, but it's just a self absorb bubble. Is that all we need here? Mind you, adding anything to the existing effect would take away from the absorb partially, or entirely depending on the suggestion. This seems fine however.
M2 - Skin of Iron
Current - Damage reduced to 1 for 5s
Proposed - 10s self buff, when attacked in melee disarm attacker for 5s
The existing implementation certainly had some positive feedback (expected as the invlunerability effect is obviously very strong), but there was also some significant confusion about what we meant. Part of what we wanted to change here was the invlunerability factor. Even with Shield Wall, you can still get hit from behind, and this is only an M2. Total damage immunity is pretty questionable for any effect. Limiting the effect to melee attackers would give more coverage than shield wall in the sense that any direction is affected, also prevents attacks from peeling off you and hitting your mates (if they disarmed after the first hit). This wouldn't affect ranged units, which leaves another window of opportunity open for the enemy realm. It's still very much a defensive tool, isn't total cheese, and provides a benefit for your melee groupmates as well as yourself.
M1 - Rock Clutch
Current - 5' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' range, 900 damage, 5s unbreakable root
Note - Marauder M1 Flames of Fate, and White Lion M1 Ensnare will be mirrored to this when implemented
When it comes to morales that basically have the same exact effect at different efficiencies, well. Who knows why there's a discrepancy between these three. Some will try to qualify Destro as having better morale pumps, so the Mara one is weaker, but the WL is stronger, and then you have the IB which is far weaker than both of them, but it's on a tank so it's supposed to be? Mara/WL have a full 65' range and IB have 5' because traps and chaos magic are more ranged than rock magic? None of this fits right, Ensnare/FoF are both very strong, so we're squishing them all into a common effect with the same duration, range, and damage, all somewhere in the middle. This ends up being a nice buff for IB, and a nerf for WL and Mara, while bringing all three on par with each other.
Knight of the Blazing Sun
Spoiler:
M4 - Nova Strike - DPS Tree
Current - 65' line, 1200 damage with 1200 over 9s (4 ticks at 300)
Proposed - 65' line, 1200 damage with 1800 over 9s (3 ticks at 600)
Note about this, apparently at some point damage was reported to be blockable. When we get in here to dig around, we will make sure that isn't a thing. Aside from that, this needs a bit more DPS from the DoT tick and it should be fine.
M4 - Flawless Defense - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 50% for 10s
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 30% for 10s
50% is too damn high! Relative to other tank morales anyway. Sure they don't get anything for themselves, but at 30% it's still the strongest group avoidance buff in the game.
M4 - Solar Flare - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, deal 1200 damage and drain all morale from nearby enemies.
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, deal 1200 damage and drain 1200 morale from nearby enemies.
Let's just bring this down a big fat notch. In situations where Solar Flare is going to be specced for and used, a 1200pt morale drain will do handle more than enough disruption to make a push into an enemy group. ALL morale is a silly amount. Keep in mind that Blackguard is getting a straight mirror of this ability as well. Can you perform the same job with _only_ a 1200pt morale drain? Absolutely.
M3 - No Escape
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1200 damage and 10s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, 900 damage and 5s unbreakable root
This is something we kind of compared to Rock Clutch as the IB M1, and then looked at all of the other tank M3's, most of which are defensive in nature. Lowering the damage to match other 5s unbreakable roots makes sense, and the 30' radius also fits. Where No Escape should shine is catching several people at once. The current implementation is strong enough that there's no reason to hold it even if you only hit a single target. It was essentially an entire Raze channel being dumped as instant burst damage with a 10s unbreakable root. That's a bit much.
M2 - Emporer's Champion
Current - Self buff STR/TGH/WND +240 for 30s
Proposed - Self buff, grant CC/snare immunity and a 20% movement speed boost for 10s
Feedback was opposed to the previous proposal as it combined too many benefits into a single buff. Pulling that back slightly, this will not cleanse your existing CC or Snares. You will need to use Juggernaut before popping this for full freedom of movement and hope you're not snared in that brief window. The reason for this change is 720 points of stats. I don't know where this comes from. KotBS already have some rather significant ways to boost their stats, adding in 720 points of Morale stats that stack with those is way overkill. Being able to move freely allows the KotBS to position for a group stagger, long knockback, and maybe a challenge before the effect wears off.
M1 - Guardian of Light
Current - Self absorb 3600 damage for 30s
Unchanged
This is a fairly strong M1, but it's literally the same effect and duration as Archmage, so not unheard of.
Current - 65' line, 1200 damage with 1200 over 9s (4 ticks at 300)
Proposed - 65' line, 1200 damage with 1800 over 9s (3 ticks at 600)
Note about this, apparently at some point damage was reported to be blockable. When we get in here to dig around, we will make sure that isn't a thing. Aside from that, this needs a bit more DPS from the DoT tick and it should be fine.
M4 - Flawless Defense - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 50% for 10s
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase all avoidance by 30% for 10s
50% is too damn high! Relative to other tank morales anyway. Sure they don't get anything for themselves, but at 30% it's still the strongest group avoidance buff in the game.
M4 - Solar Flare - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, deal 1200 damage and drain all morale from nearby enemies.
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, deal 1200 damage and drain 1200 morale from nearby enemies.
Let's just bring this down a big fat notch. In situations where Solar Flare is going to be specced for and used, a 1200pt morale drain will do handle more than enough disruption to make a push into an enemy group. ALL morale is a silly amount. Keep in mind that Blackguard is getting a straight mirror of this ability as well. Can you perform the same job with _only_ a 1200pt morale drain? Absolutely.
M3 - No Escape
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1200 damage and 10s unbreakable root
Proposed - 30' PBAOE, 900 damage and 5s unbreakable root
This is something we kind of compared to Rock Clutch as the IB M1, and then looked at all of the other tank M3's, most of which are defensive in nature. Lowering the damage to match other 5s unbreakable roots makes sense, and the 30' radius also fits. Where No Escape should shine is catching several people at once. The current implementation is strong enough that there's no reason to hold it even if you only hit a single target. It was essentially an entire Raze channel being dumped as instant burst damage with a 10s unbreakable root. That's a bit much.
M2 - Emporer's Champion
Current - Self buff STR/TGH/WND +240 for 30s
Proposed - Self buff, grant CC/snare immunity and a 20% movement speed boost for 10s
Feedback was opposed to the previous proposal as it combined too many benefits into a single buff. Pulling that back slightly, this will not cleanse your existing CC or Snares. You will need to use Juggernaut before popping this for full freedom of movement and hope you're not snared in that brief window. The reason for this change is 720 points of stats. I don't know where this comes from. KotBS already have some rather significant ways to boost their stats, adding in 720 points of Morale stats that stack with those is way overkill. Being able to move freely allows the KotBS to position for a group stagger, long knockback, and maybe a challenge before the effect wears off.
M1 - Guardian of Light
Current - Self absorb 3600 damage for 30s
Unchanged
This is a fairly strong M1, but it's literally the same effect and duration as Archmage, so not unheard of.
Swordmaster
Spoiler:
M4 - Whirling Geyser - DPS Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1200 damage and knockback
Unchanged
M4 - Shield of Valor - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, gain 200 AP and 4500pt absorb for 10s
Proposed - 100' party buff, gain 200 AP and 4500pt absorb for 15s
This is being bumped up slightly in absorb duration as it's the same thing as Black Orc M4 - Can't Touch Us. Whether these absorbs actually last 15s or not is a totally different issue, no sense leaving it sloppy.
M4 - Shadow Blades - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1800 damage over 12s (~500x4 at 2-4s?), -28 morale per second note: broken / mitigated damage
Proposed - 30' PBAOE channel, 2700 damage over 9s (900x3 ticks at 3s), Pull up to 4 random targets up to 45' away to the center - ignores immunities.
Something about spinning around with a big sword just seems right. This is a pull effect similar to Choppa, the damage is significant as it's an interruptible channel. Ideally we would have the first pull go off before the damage starts ticking, and the last pull line up with the last tick. This would grab random players within 45', getting lucky means pulling in players that are outside the 30' damage radius.
M3 - Bladeshield
Current - Deal 600 damage back to attackers and 3600pt absorb for 10s
Unchanged
M2 - Guard of Steel (swapping Wings of Heaven to M1)
Current - 100' party buff, increase Toughness by 120 for 10s
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase Armor by 800 for 20s
The swap on these is two-fold. First we didn't want to do a flat nerf to WoH, moving it down to M1 makes it more accessible, and allows us to change it as a tradeoff. Second, Guard of Steel being a party buff simply does not belong in the M1 slot. To compensate for that, making it a Morale armor buff and extending the duration to 20s should be satisfactory.
M1 - Wings of Heaven
Current - Pounce up to 100' feet (really?) to your target. Snare enemies in the area by 60% for 10s
Proposed - Pounce up to 45' to your target, deal 600 damage to enemies within 20' when you land.
Bringing this range down to 45' and adding a bit of AOE splash damage on the landing instead of a vicious 60% snare should bring it in line with M1 effectiveness. Problems with very long movements like this come in two flavors, magically appearing tank elves due to server latency (kind of looks like warping), and the ability to get to places that probably shouldn't be gotten to. 45' is plenty for a front line tank to reasonably hop around.
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1200 damage and knockback
Unchanged
M4 - Shield of Valor - Tank Tree
Current - 100' party buff, gain 200 AP and 4500pt absorb for 10s
Proposed - 100' party buff, gain 200 AP and 4500pt absorb for 15s
This is being bumped up slightly in absorb duration as it's the same thing as Black Orc M4 - Can't Touch Us. Whether these absorbs actually last 15s or not is a totally different issue, no sense leaving it sloppy.
M4 - Shadow Blades - Utility Tree
Current - 30' PBAOE, 1800 damage over 12s (~500x4 at 2-4s?), -28 morale per second note: broken / mitigated damage
Proposed - 30' PBAOE channel, 2700 damage over 9s (900x3 ticks at 3s), Pull up to 4 random targets up to 45' away to the center - ignores immunities.
Something about spinning around with a big sword just seems right. This is a pull effect similar to Choppa, the damage is significant as it's an interruptible channel. Ideally we would have the first pull go off before the damage starts ticking, and the last pull line up with the last tick. This would grab random players within 45', getting lucky means pulling in players that are outside the 30' damage radius.
M3 - Bladeshield
Current - Deal 600 damage back to attackers and 3600pt absorb for 10s
Unchanged
M2 - Guard of Steel (swapping Wings of Heaven to M1)
Current - 100' party buff, increase Toughness by 120 for 10s
Proposed - 100' party buff, increase Armor by 800 for 20s
The swap on these is two-fold. First we didn't want to do a flat nerf to WoH, moving it down to M1 makes it more accessible, and allows us to change it as a tradeoff. Second, Guard of Steel being a party buff simply does not belong in the M1 slot. To compensate for that, making it a Morale armor buff and extending the duration to 20s should be satisfactory.
M1 - Wings of Heaven
Current - Pounce up to 100' feet (really?) to your target. Snare enemies in the area by 60% for 10s
Proposed - Pounce up to 45' to your target, deal 600 damage to enemies within 20' when you land.
Bringing this range down to 45' and adding a bit of AOE splash damage on the landing instead of a vicious 60% snare should bring it in line with M1 effectiveness. Problems with very long movements like this come in two flavors, magically appearing tank elves due to server latency (kind of looks like warping), and the ability to get to places that probably shouldn't be gotten to. 45' is plenty for a front line tank to reasonably hop around.