Any ETA on the SH re-work

[Jabba]

The game is more than just SC, why don't you play a few forts (rSH spec) and then come back and tell me how useful you felt. Even in normal oRvR, sure you're not worthless and played right you can help your team even in anni/conq gear, but compared to other rDPS you're still bottom of the barrel. Not enough DPS, not enough AoE, not enough utility to make up for it. Add extremely squishy to that and you've got a class spec that doesn't really excel at anything but still isn't rounded enough to be "jack of all trades". Most experienced rSH's will tell you this in-game if you ask them.

Squig herder doesn't have enough utility? Lol

Can you read? Not enough utility to make up for our lack of DPS and AoE. What do we have to offer that other classes with better DPS can't offer? Pierce Defences and ranged heal debuff is all I can think of, but Choppa and Mara have heal debuff as well. A single target ini debuff way worse than Sorcs AoE ini debuff, an armor debuff worse than Maras armor debuff. What exactly about rSH's utility makes it worth a spot in fort/city/whatever over a class with better DPS and AoE and marginally worse utility?

You say rSH lacks utility compared to their damage, which they do not, as their damage is fine for anyone who can play the class to any sort of decent level (of which there are very few I grant you). As their damage is fine, their toolset, which is quite broad and varied, is most certainly not lacking. This leads me to my rather bemused comment about how you think rSH is lacking utility for their damage, which they most certainly aren't.

As for aoe, they have an aoe spec which performs well, all specs in the game don't have to be able to do everything, what rSH's do, they do very well.

[havartii]

So just leave it as is then Tushi? There are post comparing each skill to SW buffs and people say no we can't have that they are different. We are told we would see a rework and nothing. So your in favor of Order getting buffed and nothing for Destro side? This is just as much a post for equality as it is for the neglected SH. Maybe more than a couple people should be able to play the class well??

[Arbich]

Maybe more than a couple people should be able to play the class well??

But why? The couple of people show that the class is fine. Just look at the 6vs6 leaderboard. On position 1 is a squig herder (teefz). Yes, it wasn't updated for a while, but it still shows a quite decent w/l rate of 130:30 on him in an balanced environment. And he was playing most of them in range spec, cause he is a coward.
And I am not saying squig herder is the best class of all (even though the statistics would suggest that but teefz is an exceptional player), but it's clearly a decent class.

And yes for different parts of the game different specs are more or less suited for different classes (it's this way for many other classes, too). So in city or fort (as attacken) Go melee.

I really can't see how a buff to rsh is justified when witnessing the performance of different rsh.

[Jabba]

So just leave it as is then Tushi? There are post comparing each skill to SW buffs and people say no we can't have that they are different. We are told we would see a rework and nothing. So your in favor of Order getting buffed and nothing for Destro side? This is just as much a post for equality as it is for the neglected SH. Maybe more than a couple people should be able to play the class well??

I would take leaving it as it is over giving it the changes sw has (squig already has access to an aoe spec, it needs no changes to rsh to fill that role).

The only changes (if changes are even required) should be minor ones, suggestions like Leaky made:

Remove the requirement of Behind ya! but add a bonus damage when you use it from behind
Increase the damage of Lots o' Arrers to be equal or better than the DPS of Run n shoot.
Reduce Squig Frenzy CD to 60sec and/or make it affect all damage of the Pet, not just autoattacks.

Things like this, hell even increasing the range of spiked squig a bit. It feels like its 60-65ft atm? Even increasing it to 80ft or so would be a nice qol improvement if 100ft is still deemed too strong.

[Jastojan]

I dont understand the motivation behind the opinions like the one from Arbich... You do not play rSH, topic is about rSH, but somehow you are here just to say that top equipped, high RR SH players are good enough to deal dmg. No matter that rSH has no place in most WBs, no matter that rSH is not able to make decent pressure to the target if the target is NOT under the pressure of at least 1 more DPS, you just say "The couple of people show that the class is fine" pointing out the few top RR players who can deal dmg (no matter that I see most of them as melee mostly - except 1 or 2).

rSW was my main when I started play RoR and I saw that it should get some buffs and love. At 57 RR I left it and I moved to destro expecting the rSH will be different story (I wanted to play the bowman). But no. Same is with rSH (now RR73). Then I create a Sorc to see the possibility of top single target ranged and yes, it is squishy with backlash but the dps si very satisfying even with poor eq and low RR. You can deal decent dmg. Compared to sorc (or magus) there is no reason to have rSH in WB. SW was the same spot. The only difference between rSH and rSW gameplay was I could stay and cast from on the walls as SW when we were deffing keeps. Destro do not like to have many rangeds on the walls it seems.

When I saw the will of devs to rework and buff SW I was happy for them even If I play destro because they really needed some buffs. I did not try SW after changes but I can clearly see more SWs in lakes. If there are some bad changes, they should make proposals until it is"hot".
We were told that rSH is next... but when? Idk. Maybe never because some order players saw few top highest RR and top geared SHs on top in scoreboard...

[Ugle]

Give them a sw style ranged "buff" and get it over with. Dumb it down to boring inefficent gameplay.

[Jabba]

I dont understand the motivation behind the opinions like the one from Arbich... You do not play rSH, topic is about rSH, but somehow you are here just to say that top equipped, high RR SH players are good enough to deal dmg. No matter that rSH has no place in most WBs, no matter that rSH is not able to make decent pressure to the target if the target is NOT under the pressure of at least 1 more DPS, you just say "The couple of people show that the class is fine" pointing out the few top RR players who can deal dmg (no matter that I see most of them as melee mostly - except 1 or 2).

rSW was my main when I started play RoR and I saw that it should get some buffs and love. At 57 RR I left it and I moved to destro expecting the rSH will be different story (I wanted to play the bowman). But no. Same is with rSH (now RR73). Then I create a Sorc to see the possibility of top single target ranged and yes, it is squishy with backlash but the dps si very satisfying even with poor eq and low RR. You can deal decent dmg. Compared to sorc (or magus) there is no reason to have rSH in WB. SW was the same spot. The only difference between rSH and rSW gameplay was I could stay and cast from on the walls as SW when we were deffing keeps. Destro do not like to have many rangeds on the walls it seems.

When I saw the will of devs to rework and buff SW I was happy for them even If I play destro because they really needed some buffs. I did not try SW after changes but I can clearly see more SWs in lakes. If there are some bad changes, they should make proposals until it is"hot".
We were told that rSH is next... but when? Idk. Maybe never because some order players saw few top highest RR and top geared SHs on top in scoreboard...

SH doesn't need a buff to aoe in it's range spec to give it a desirable spot in warbands, it already has a spec for that role. SW didn't have any.

Arbich's point is that some players prove the range spec doesn't need buffs, just because others don't get the same mileage out of the class as them, doesn't mean it's the class that's at fault.

[Jastojan]

I dont understand the motivation behind the opinions like the one from Arbich... You do not play rSH, topic is about rSH, but somehow you are here just to say that top equipped, high RR SH players are good enough to deal dmg. No matter that rSH has no place in most WBs, no matter that rSH is not able to make decent pressure to the target if the target is NOT under the pressure of at least 1 more DPS, you just say "The couple of people show that the class is fine" pointing out the few top RR players who can deal dmg (no matter that I see most of them as melee mostly - except 1 or 2).

rSW was my main when I started play RoR and I saw that it should get some buffs and love. At 57 RR I left it and I moved to destro expecting the rSH will be different story (I wanted to play the bowman). But no. Same is with rSH (now RR73). Then I create a Sorc to see the possibility of top single target ranged and yes, it is squishy with backlash but the dps si very satisfying even with poor eq and low RR. You can deal decent dmg. Compared to sorc (or magus) there is no reason to have rSH in WB. SW was the same spot. The only difference between rSH and rSW gameplay was I could stay and cast from on the walls as SW when we were deffing keeps. Destro do not like to have many rangeds on the walls it seems.

When I saw the will of devs to rework and buff SW I was happy for them even If I play destro because they really needed some buffs. I did not try SW after changes but I can clearly see more SWs in lakes. If there are some bad changes, they should make proposals until it is"hot".
We were told that rSH is next... but when? Idk. Maybe never because some order players saw few top highest RR and top geared SHs on top in scoreboard...

SH doesn't need a buff to aoe in it's range spec to give it a desirable spot in warbands, it already has a spec for that role. SW didn't have any.

Arbich's point is that some players prove the range spec doesn't need buffs, just because others don't get the same mileage out of the class as them, doesn't mean it's the class that's at fault.

And I wrote that these "some players" (which u chose as a appropriate to "prove" as you wrote) are top gaered (highest RR squig herders). Devs should stop making any changes to any class because top geared players with highest renown ranks even of the weakest class can "prove" (are appropriate to "prove") that their class can be viable (at least) and needs no tweaks? (I dont say that rSH is the weakest class - it is exaggerated to describe the way you advocate that rSH doesnt need more love). Somehow you can get the point of Arbich´s post, but you are missing the point of mine. (my english is not the best I know, but I hope the idea is clear enough to understand)

PS: we could discuss like this forever. It makes no sense. The question of the topic was answered by dev and we can only waste our time (why the hell I wrote these posts, idk). :-/

[Arbich]

I dont understand the motivation behind the opinions like the one from Arbich... You do not play rSH, topic is about rSH, but somehow you are here just to say that top equipped, high RR SH players are good enough to deal dmg. No matter that rSH has no place in most WBs, no matter that rSH is not able to make decent pressure to the target if the target is NOT under the pressure of at least 1 more DPS, you just say "The couple of people show that the class is fine" pointing out the few top RR players who can deal dmg (no matter that I see most of them as melee mostly - except 1 or 2).

rSW was my main when I started play RoR and I saw that it should get some buffs and love. At 57 RR I left it and I moved to destro expecting the rSH will be different story (I wanted to play the bowman). But no. Same is with rSH (now RR73). Then I create a Sorc to see the possibility of top single target ranged and yes, it is squishy with backlash but the dps si very satisfying even with poor eq and low RR. You can deal decent dmg. Compared to sorc (or magus) there is no reason to have rSH in WB. SW was the same spot. The only difference between rSH and rSW gameplay was I could stay and cast from on the walls as SW when we were deffing keeps. Destro do not like to have many rangeds on the walls it seems.

When I saw the will of devs to rework and buff SW I was happy for them even If I play destro because they really needed some buffs. I did not try SW after changes but I can clearly see more SWs in lakes. If there are some bad changes, they should make proposals until it is"hot".
We were told that rSH is next... but when? Idk. Maybe never because some order players saw few top highest RR and top geared SHs on top in scoreboard...

I addressed that teefz is a bit of a outlier, but the example actually shows that rsh isnt just capable to do decent dmg, but does outperform other also well equiped players on different classes. Whats the argument you are making? WL,Choppa,Slayer are in a even worse state than rsh? high rsh sets are too strong and deserve a nerf?

And I also agreed that rsh is not the best spec for specific situations. But its the same for BW, Sorc, WP, DoK, SM, shaman, AM etc.... probably for all classes, except maybe slayer, choppa and BG(?). Respeccing is free.

[marauderchoppa]

SW and SH both range trees were almost mirror and you could totally spec and play the same way previously. They only have a couple abilities that work differently on those two trees.
With the changes to SW, few of those mirror abilities already consider better than what SH has right now.

While I read some post people are not interested in mirroring those changes to SH,but just a couple abilites which SH have right now definately in needs of some sort of changes if not mirror.
Example SH splinterin' arrers tactic, SW version now affects 2 abilities instead of just 1, and they dont suffer 30% reduce damage. Atleast, could ask is to remove the 30% damage reduction and make the tactic abit viable for aoe in orvr as a rSH.

While people ask to respec to mSH for orvr. But there is a reason people play SH because they want to be a range bow class and doesn't want to rely heavily on pocket healer/guard too much.
Being force to respec into melee because of meta spec isn't fun as a range class. While no need to buff rSH aoe on par with mSH, just abit changes to make rSH more viable in aoe.
Hope this will make more sense and isn't much of a major revamp.