do we have a balance problem?

[Goermsi]

I was active in 2 topics last time.
One where destro ask for royals while no city pop (and dev team brings the exact same arguments why this suggestion makes no sense) and one where I argued against a WL buff because compare WL to mara makes no sense. Pls tell us where I'm so super hostile.

Just ... all over the SH rework?
Only when the players realize that we are all playing the same game - together. Only then will something happen in our community. Maybe I'm doing you wrong, but I can remember a few absolutely one-sided comments that suggest that you rather represent your view and not the big picture. Sorry if that is not so, or you see it differently. Your expression is, as I said, very difficult to like and so also very difficult to work with.

[Ysaran]

Ignore all posts and attribute everything to player behaviour is a way to go man

You don't want listen to me? fine. I'm no one. But listen to Aurandilaz. He is one of the few experienced player that actually bother joining the shitshow that the forum is. Stick around the forum for some time and you will understand that the words of some ppl are more reliable than other.
Not all the opinions have the same weight.

and I have already answered to him, yeah forum is very biased and huge part of people have agendas to make their classes and/or faction stronger (probably they attributed their looses and deaths to overall balance and biased devs, which in most cases is not true), but argument that order has kotbs/slayer/wp and play them to win is flawed at its core, because of 2 problems: city is endgame content and u can get the best armor (and in future weapons) from it, hence all classes should be optimized to participate in it. and second, because order has only several overtuned classes, yes, but destro has more good classes and henceforth can land more viable builds for city. It's like people do not want to play 4 classes on order, when kotbs and ib are very boring in comparison to chosen/bg, for example.

Overall I think the approach should be to optimize more classes for city (more on order, less on destro, but several destro classes could use tuning to). Same goes for forts (though I think overall system of the forts should be changed).

I agree with you, but I'm quite sure the OP wasn't talking about inter-realm balance. And that's why my initial post. Order should complain less about SH and GTDC and more about Rampage/ID, BW AoE damage, Kotbs versatility and WP/Rune healing potential. Worst Order's enemy is Order itself

[detrap]

The Devs made changes to Forts because they were too favoured by ranged, now the melee can port up to the third floor and you have to defend stairs/upper floor as well as the other doors on push. Destro now take Forts on a regular basis.

How about doing something to City instances or at least stages in City which favours ranged classes instead of melee? May help the balance a bit

All ranged classes have a place in city warbands, on order anyways.

[knick]

Spoiler:

]

I was active in 2 topics last time.
One where destro ask for royals while no city pop (and dev team brings the exact same arguments why this suggestion makes no sense) and one where I argued against a WL buff because compare WL to mara makes no sense. Pls tell us where I'm so super hostile.

Just ... all over the SH rework?
Only when the players realize that we are all playing the same game - together. Only then will something happen in our community. Maybe I'm doing you wrong, but I can remember a few absolutely one-sided comments that suggest that you rather represent your view and not the big picture. Sorry if that is not so, or you see it differently. Your expression is, as I said, very difficult to like and so also very difficult to work with.

Oh you mean the SH post where I defended the changes while most sh are whining about how bad it was. I said the changes gives the SH a good buff maybe a bit to much mobility and CC. How toxic from me.
See that's the problem
You don't even argue against my point of view. You try to discredit me as person and why I must be wrong because of this or that statement.

[Goermsi]

Oh you mean the SH post where I defended the changes while most sh are whining about how bad it was. I said the changes gives the SH a good buff maybe a bit to much mobility and CC. How toxic from me.
See that's the problem
You don't even argue against my point of view. You try to discredit me as person and why I must be wrong because of this or that statement.

Well, you can put it that way or we can say that you basically dismissed the opinions of the other players because you were afraid of getting even stronger opponents. So again, a strongly egoistic statement was in play instead of constructive feedback. But hey, I'm not here to play chess with pigeons either. Fly your way and have fun

[Specialpatrol]

What KOTBS nerfs affected cities? DId yours run the +dmg taken tactic?

Ooh! This too tempting, so I'll bite.

A quick list of KotBS nerfs off the top of my head and in no particular order, including a couple of universal ones:
- Destroy Confidence (tactic): Removed
- Dirty Tricks (tactic): Nerfed
- Encouraged Aim (tactic, now Overpowering Swing): Changed and nerfed
- Vigilance (ability): Nerfed
- Slice Through (tactic): Nerfed
- Banish Darkness (tactic): Nerfed
- Runefang (tactic): Nerfed and removed from core
- Mighty Soul (tactic): Removed
- Efficient Swings (tactic): Changed and arguably nerfed
- Stay Focused (aura): Nerfed
- Emperor’s Champion (morale): Nerfed
- Raze (morale): Moved to m3, indirect nerf (universal change)
- Guard (ability): Changed and nerfed (universal change, mainly affecting 2h tanks)
- Hold the Line (ability): changed and nerfed (universal change)

Take your pick in which of the above that might have affected cities.

End of derailment. Back on topic.

[Gurf]

destro also stacking chopper chosen bo dok mara. we, bg, rsh will always have a hard time finding wb. these order4ever players pfcos wouldnt know.

So how those instances which are full of the unwanted classes still don't lose?

[orillah]

Finally working as intended.

[emiliorv]

ATM order has the best classes for the archetypes: MDPS (Slayer), RDPS (BW), HEAL (WP) => you still refuse to play them, and refuse to k¡make proper wbs....this 2 reasons are linked ofc...ppl keep playing lol-dps/lol-classes in a high % and dont get invited to proper wbs...and finally you have a bunch of solopuggers

All that claims about destro/order dont have any sense when you see wbs filled with 5 whs+3sws or 6 engis, etc...

NOTE: I dont play any tank class, so i cant say anything about them.

Play overtuned classes to win is not a good argument discussing endgame content of the game which has 12 classes per side. Yeah, sl is probably best mdps and bw rdps (idk about healers). But then mara>wl, magus>engie, bg>IB, rSH>rSW and mSW, mSH>WL, shammie>AM, choppa is good, not far behind slayer. maybe it's that destro has more options to play? with big advantage in cc and utility, and order needing to play mainly 4 classes to win is a problem?

Having SL and BW (also it is a joke in city, mdps are much better in current meta) is not good for order (however this classes may be overtuned), we need more viable classes for different parts of the game, not 2 classes absolutely rocking.

You dont need to play only 4 classes to win, but you cant stack a pile of engis/sw/wh/am and expecto to win...the same way that destro dont stack magus/sh/we/shaman (sure mSH have better aoe than mSW but still its no good to stack them). But at least order have access to these ovetuned classes (the best in their archetype), the wbs who stack them are really hard to beat.

Also good BWs can bring a high amount of dps, if you think they are a joke dont try to play sorc...

[emiliorv]

destro also stacking chopper chosen bo dok mara. we, bg, rsh will always have a hard time finding wb. these order4ever players pfcos wouldnt know.

So how those instances which are full of the unwanted classes still don't lose?

Unwanted classes try to solo-queue => destro soloqueuers dont get pop = only destro full wbs get city instance...its not hard to understand....though you understand in this topic: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42585

Try to read again slowly, take your time, its not too hard...