do we have a balance problem?

[Lewko]

Do we have balance problem? Yes as 90% of order players simply cannot play open RVR. Destro farm us on daily basis at our WCs and nobody really cares (unless they send one or two wb to annihilate one 6 players team of destro). Better way is to zerg the keep and avoid destro "premade" (ofc all groups of destro are premade when they lose). Yep please conitinue feeding destro guys and cry why they have such a high level RR and gear. Thankfully we have NA time (destro sleep) to do pretty much empty keeps/forts. The true hurts....

[Fey]

Short story long. If you're actually concerned about the volume of the player base then crappy crap like Rachel Maddowlands is far more detrimental than (in)balance. I dunno what the solution is there, time I imagine.

In reality this all is an epeen measuring contest. Pants up and adjust your strategy. If you won't play a tank and champ challenge cause you only do pwnage dps, you're going to get kited by gobbos. If you can't be bothered to farm level 1 rats for snare pots, you're going to get kited by gobbos.

Been playing Order exclusively for over a year, don't see what the whinging is about. Players can't even be bothered to respec or change out a tactic.

[Naelar]

Short story long. If you're actually concerned about the volume of the player base then crappy crap like Rachel Maddowlands is far more detrimental than (in)balance. I dunno what the solution is there, time I imagine.

In reality this all is an epeen measuring contest. Pants up and adjust your strategy. If you won't play a tank and champ challenge cause you only do pwnage dps, you're going to get kited by gobbos. If you can't be bothered to farm level 1 rats for snare pots, you're going to get kited by gobbos.

Been playing Order exclusively for over a year, don't see what the whinging is about. Players can't even be bothered to respec or change out a tactic.

This is not possible. It's all because Destro is massively OP. Errrbody says so! (or whines so)

[knick]

so guys we have now filled nearly 40 sites with more or less (more less than all) helpful assumptions about is ORDER right now in a worse situation vs DESTRO. Looks like we hit here a sensitive subject to some people.

My expectations to this discussion was not to find a final answer to the question is and when yes why is ORDER now in a worser shape. But to keep a discussion up about balance even when the forum is wildy biased about own class and realm. To make it clear -DESTRO had have the same right accordingly to forts.

To take City's in compare for balance is needed and important. First of all its a WB vs WB instanced environment. As by Devs declared we dont play a solo game. So Open pvp and even Sc´s are not meaningful. Only in City's we can nearly see all classes of each realm fighting each other. Synergies between classes and ability's can be seen here preferably and why some classes are not fit the actual WB meta.

To bring my post to a end i post the last city's i was in. Nearly anything is discussable and based on own point of view. Results not. So to show it was not just a single city to DESTRO pride time with 100% win rate on 19.12 i continued to collect (i know i missed one or two).
19.12.2020

20.12.2020

21.12.2020

23.12.2020


maybe some one can provide the city 22nd of december?

so if i dont miscounted 53 instances
Desto won 41 - 77% win
Order won 12 - 23% win

If we stay with the argument "OrDeR iS jUsT To StUpId tO GrOuP uP" and "CaNt PlAy In GrOuPs" we should go back to the old Fort theard (died because no one interested in anymore after we have now every day a Altdorf in EU primetime), bring old Forts back and discuss why DESTRO is not able to siege the forts. Maybe its also just a player problem and not a ingame/balance problem.
Not sure if it is possible in this environment to discuss actual balance situation. If not i just continue to collect city's like forts got collected to show actual unbalance in realms (mind you for both sides)

[Gurf]

City has always favoured melee ball and Destro has always had an easier time making melee ball warbands. Part of City should be changed to favour ranged over melee , or at least Altdorf instances should. Just like the Devs changed forts to make it easier for Destro, changes should be made to city to help ranged classes.

Also cooldown decreasers obviously need looking at as that is primarily why classes like MSH overperform in City , because then skills like Big Bouncing is on 3 second cooldown, Destro healers have spammable cleanse etc. AM survivability needs to be brought up to Shaman level.

Those are the most obvious balance issues outside of the ridiculous numbers Destro have at the moment.

[Roids]

Destro Win around 80% is balance
Order Win around 80% emergency patch, if not enought seconds patch and so on till its 80% for destro balance again.

Or how the **** you wanna explain Fort patches? Was perfectly balanced, destro just needed to play mass Sorc/Magus and all would be fine in Forts, but no we need to patch it. So why Destro farmed order on city so hard and still do, but thats all play meta classes, play more tanks etc.

This just shows how pro destro this whole **** is, same for scs etc. I bet would destro lose like order do so we would have for all SCs a Check for 2 2 2 since two years.

[mathousalix6]

Let's forget RVR and scenarios and talk about cities. I have seen a million times the best Order guilds, that are fully organized and high-geared, battle against the best destruction guilds. They lose 85% of the time. Order's most organized guilds sometimes lose even to some mediocre Destro ones. I don't think that is normal but based on opinions I have seen in the forums from destro-exclusive-players their comment on that is "git gud scrub". I don't know if that's the problem. It's a massively played multiplayer game. The skill level is balanced by statistics I guess. So something else must be wrong here.

[TreefAM]

Let's forget RVR and scenarios and talk about cities. I have seen a million times the best Order guilds, that are fully organized and high-geared, battle against the best destruction guilds. They lose 85% of the time. Order's most organized guilds sometimes lose even to some mediocre Destro ones. I don't think that is normal but based on opinions I have seen in the forums from destro-exclusive-players their comment on that is "git gud scrub". I don't know if that's the problem. It's a massively played multiplayer game. The skill level is balanced by statistics I guess. So something else must be wrong here.

What best guilds, you mean Rolgrom running with AM's that can't outheal SM or Slayers for the last what, 2-3 cities in a row?

[mathousalix6]

Let's forget RVR and scenarios and talk about cities. I have seen a million times the best Order guilds, that are fully organized and high-geared, battle against the best destruction guilds. They lose 85% of the time. Order's most organized guilds sometimes lose even to some mediocre Destro ones. I don't think that is normal but based on opinions I have seen in the forums from destro-exclusive-players their comment on that is "git gud scrub". I don't know if that's the problem. It's a massively played multiplayer game. The skill level is balanced by statistics I guess. So something else must be wrong here.

What best guilds, you mean Rolgrom running with AM's that can't outheal SM or Slayers for the last what, 2-3 cities in a row?

No I am not talking about that, but I don't want to call names. I think it's pretty obvious what are the most active and organized guilds in Order

[Aurandilaz]

Let's forget RVR and scenarios and talk about cities. I have seen a million times the best Order guilds, that are fully organized and high-geared, battle against the best destruction guilds. They lose 85% of the time. Order's most organized guilds sometimes lose even to some mediocre Destro ones. I don't think that is normal but based on opinions I have seen in the forums from destro-exclusive-players their comment on that is "git gud scrub". I don't know if that's the problem. It's a massively played multiplayer game. The skill level is balanced by statistics I guess. So something else must be wrong here.

TUP/Phalanx alliance still has circa 96% winrate from playing around 70-90 Order city instances. Most of those before Destro morales were nerfed. We lost to LOB/Exodus/Mont once (never bring 2 WHs to a city lol and only 1 RP), and maybe 2+ losses to FMJ (including absurd 300-100 kill advantage but losing stage 3 pve race, is loss, even if we had some /5 ppl in ranks because keeping full guild/alliance roster is nigh impossible on Order). Maybe some other loss I forgot about.

I have most recorded, it's just pretty boring to watch playing a Slayer spam Flurry with Rampage up or spamming WL Slashing Blade for 10000 times.

then again maybe we are just dirty xrealmers trying to distort real Order guild winrate statistics.

Fenryls /5 groups used for sure to have very high winrates back in spring when still running and caring to city log, same with other 6man alliances of guilds merging their meleetrains for cities.