Order is the new chaos?

[Sponn]

paraphrase /ˈparəfreɪz/: noun: paraphrase; plural noun: paraphrases
a rewording of something written or spoken.

Paraphase doesn't mean to totally mess up the message. LMAO


Here lemme try, the saying is.... 2 bushes are better than 1 hand right? I'm just paraphrasing "one in the hand is better than 2 in the bush"

To make it painfully obvious: the normal expression is "don't hate the player, hate the game" when one is forced by the system to act in a certain way. However when it's the player that goes against a beneficial system then situation is reversed - hence my little signalled jest. But you know, one sentence out of the whole wall of text... Good to know you agree with the rest of it.

Not particularly

I think it is a convenient excuse for people like yourself to blame the players and not the devs.


I mean might as well blame the people with the least amount of agency, action, and power when imposing change on the server. Def is easier that way.

[emiliorv]

The system is more rewarding to dps classes, at least to competent dps...and less for support classes.

A healer can make a shitton of amount healed and get a stupid reward if the ppl who is healing is not killing anyone....i know, you have to look for competent groupmates, but not much appealing to roll a healer....even with competent dps in grp probably they got more reward than the healer...

probably tanks are in the same boat...

Besides system, Players have their share of blame...everyone knows that the support roles are a "must", if anyone play them you will suffer their lack too....there are plenty of threads of "my sc dont have healers" and the OP is appealing to OTHERS play that role to support his dps toon...

[NSKaneda]

The system is more rewarding to dps classes, at least to competent dps...and less for support classes.

A healer can make a shitton of amount healed and get a stupid reward if the ppl who is healing is not killing anyone....i know, you have to look for competent groupmates, but not much appealing to roll a healer....even with competent dps in grp probably they got more reward than the healer...

probably tanks are in the same boat...

Besides system, Players have their share of blame...everyone knows that the support roles are a "must", if anyone play them you will suffer their lack too....there are plenty of threads of "my sc dont have healers" and the OP is appealing to OTHERS play that role to support his dps toon...

Let me sell you on little secret known to veterans: when you apply what your class was designed to do to a mass amounts of players in any of the forms rvr comes with you get massive amounts of renown (nerfed in ror but still effective) and contribution. Tanks holding the line get contribution and renown for everything that is happening behind their backs. Healers tossing hots to every hurt ally get renown and contribution for everything that ally does during the hot duration (and r&c for the kills made with buffs during the fight). Funny thing is that tanky tanks rank up faster than healers... DPS can up their renown and contribution by buffing those around them. But tank or heal trying to outdps dedicated dps classes only gets contri for a fraction of the true potential and it's a lot less than "true dps".


All of the above come before aoe debuffs, CC and campaign contribution (supply runs, bo and keep fights etc). A lot of destro know this and use it to their advantage. As des you get tonnes of out of group healing, almost immediate resses to all fallen allies, tanks HTLing, challenging and doing their dmg-soaking job.. Most of order still believe that the only way they get their rewards is by getting a KB.

Try it out sometimes

[wonshot]

...and the OP is appealing to OTHERS play that role to support his dps toon...

That, was your take away from the topic? Gezuz..

No.. I kinda just want to have the Order-realm coming out of the keeps and fight destro, so we get out of destro 5star starve-locking zones. The devs may or may not overhaul oRvR to make roaming appealing, but untill then it is for the players to get involved in the multiplayer aspect and start grouping up. Something the Order realm is severely lacking, despite the effort is worth it (see TUP city results, Smash orvr warbands, and others).

More examples of how Order is not supporting people forming 2-2-2:
Chuggy was streaming 2 days ago, for close to 4 hours did he struggle to build a 6man scenario group on his slayer (i was guarding for him on my knight to get the ball rolling, so much for me just wanting to play rdps huh)
Gitbane made a discord bomb warband on Order, struggled to fill the groups after some of his guildies logged out. Again, lack of interest from the realm to join 2-2-2 groups/warbands.

Both of these examples have been where some player started a group/wb on Order despite having destro toons they could play on, and easier fill their groups. However they played on Order, and the realm didnt support them. Hence this topic. And not my own selfish needs as you seem to believe.

Edit: all good Emilio

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

The system is more rewarding to dps classes, at least to competent dps...and less for support classes.

A healer can make a shitton of amount healed and get a stupid reward if the ppl who is healing is not killing anyone....i know, you have to look for competent groupmates, but not much appealing to roll a healer....even with competent dps in grp probably they got more reward than the healer...

probably tanks are in the same boat...

Besides system, Players have their share of blame...everyone knows that the support roles are a "must", if anyone play them you will suffer their lack too....there are plenty of threads of "my sc dont have healers" and the OP is appealing to OTHERS play that role to support his dps toon...

Let me sell you on little secret known to veterans: when you apply what your class was designed to do to a mass amounts of players in any of the forms rvr comes with you get massive amounts of renown (nerfed in ror but still effective) and contribution. Tanks holding the line get contribution and renown for everything that is happening behind their backs. Healers tossing hots to every hurt ally get renown and contribution for everything that ally does during the hot duration (and r&c for the kills made with buffs during the fight). Funny thing is that tanky tanks rank up faster than healers... DPS can up their renown and contribution by buffing those around them. But tank or heal trying to outdps dedicated dps classes only gets contri for a fraction of the true potential and it's a lot less than "true dps".


All of the above come before aoe debuffs, CC and campaign contribution (supply runs, bo and keep fights etc). A lot of destro know this and use it to their advantage. As des you get tonnes of out of group healing, almost immediate resses to all fallen allies, tanks HTLing, challenging and doing their dmg-soaking job.. Most of order still believe that the only way they get their rewards is by getting a KB.

Try it out sometimes

Yes, i know that healing oog brings some RP and contribution...but still its like trick the system and probably stealing that RP and contribution to the healers from the grp of the random guy that you are healing.

Why healers need to "cheat" the system? Why need to steal from other healers?

This is not a whine, the point is that the reward for the support classes relies on dps...but as dps if you can stay safe can get reward without support. I think this is the reason (at least one of the reasons) for the overplayed rdps classes, mostly the ones Who Can sustain...

[emiliorv]

...and the OP is appealing to OTHERS play that role to support his dps toon...

That, was your take away from the topic? Gezuz..

No.. I kinda just want to have the Order-realm coming out of the keeps and fight destro, so we get out of destro 5star starve-locking zones. The devs may or may not overhaul oRvR to make roaming appealing, but untill then it is for the players to get involved in the multiplayer aspect and start grouping up. Something the Order realm is severely lacking, despite the effort is worth it (see TUP city results, Smash orvr warbands, and others).

More examples of how Order is not supporting people forming 2-2-2:
Chuggy was streaming 2 days ago, for close to 4 hours did he struggle to build a 6man scenario group on his slayer (i was guarding for him on my knight to get the ball rolling, so much for me just wanting to play rdps huh)
Gitbane made a discord bomb warband on Order, struggled to fill the groups after some of his guildies logged out. Again, lack of interest from the realm to join 2-2-2 groups/warbands.

Both of these examples have been where some player started a group/wb on Order despite having destro toons they could play on, and easier fill their groups. However they played on Order, and the realm didnt support them. Hence this topic. And not my own selfish needs as you seem to believe.

Sorry but when i said the OP, was trying to point to the ones Who start that topics like "my SC never got healers"

Really sorry if you missunderstand or if i didnt explain too well (my english is so basic)

[orillah]

There is no hope for order. Overall as a realm its suck. You either enjoy whats happening right now or leave.

I tried to help, run tank for order for n 100+ cities - optimal specs, potions rdy, ready to join org wbs.
But apart from lucky inv into Fenryl or even more rare LOB wbs, citys was - gettin stomped by Fmj/TUP 300:1.

P.S. Guilds are really strange thing here, 2 times i joined and two times they disband with some drama.

[NSKaneda]

Spoiler:

The system is more rewarding to dps classes, at least to competent dps...and less for support classes.

A healer can make a shitton of amount healed and get a stupid reward if the ppl who is healing is not killing anyone....i know, you have to look for competent groupmates, but not much appealing to roll a healer....even with competent dps in grp probably they got more reward than the healer...

probably tanks are in the same boat...

Besides system, Players have their share of blame...everyone knows that the support roles are a "must", if anyone play them you will suffer their lack too....there are plenty of threads of "my sc dont have healers" and the OP is appealing to OTHERS play that role to support his dps toon...

Let me sell you on little secret known to veterans: when you apply what your class was designed to do to a mass amounts of players in any of the forms rvr comes with you get massive amounts of renown (nerfed in ror but still effective) and contribution. Tanks holding the line get contribution and renown for everything that is happening behind their backs. Healers tossing hots to every hurt ally get renown and contribution for everything that ally does during the hot duration (and r&c for the kills made with buffs during the fight). Funny thing is that tanky tanks rank up faster than healers... DPS can up their renown and contribution by buffing those around them. But tank or heal trying to outdps dedicated dps classes only gets contri for a fraction of the true potential and it's a lot less than "true dps".


All of the above come before aoe debuffs, CC and campaign contribution (supply runs, bo and keep fights etc). A lot of destro know this and use it to their advantage. As des you get tonnes of out of group healing, almost immediate resses to all fallen allies, tanks HTLing, challenging and doing their dmg-soaking job.. Most of order still believe that the only way they get their rewards is by getting a KB.

Try it out sometimes

Yes, i know that healing oog brings some RP and contribution...but still its like trick the system and probably stealing that RP and contribution to the healers from the grp of the random guy that you are healing.

Why healers need to "cheat" the system? Why need to steal from other healers?

This is not a whine, the point is that the reward for the support classes relies on dps...but as dps if you can stay safe can get reward without support. I think this is the reason (at least one of the reasons) for the overplayed rdps classes, mostly the ones Who Can sustain...

How is it "stealing" when you're helping your realm? Healers in group get their contribution and renown for their heals, nothing is diminished by having extra one, two or twenty hots on same friendly.

How is it "cheating" when the game rewards you for doing the thing your class was designed to do? Healers for healing, tanks for tanking, dps for dpsing and utility classes for support. And all get their rewards for buffs, debuffs and being a team player?

DPS, heals and tanks alone will die. Healers with tanks but without dps won't kill anything. Healers + dps without tanks will get facerolled because they lack protection. DPS + tanks without healers.. And so on.

Overplayed rdps classes promote solo gameplay. Wait for siege, head to wall, kill what you can, respawn or ask for res (but even solo rdps can be a teamplayer if he uses /assist to help his realm focus down troublesome targets). Then you have dps healers running solo and killing what they can while their allies die next to them. Dps tanks chasing dedicated dps classes dmg scores and wondering why their paper-thin armour crumbles while they die getting tier1 grade hots in tier 4 lakes - if they're lucky. Selfish if you ask me

[Naelar]

is there any website or database compiled showing every class numbers? I wonder is that disparition between order tank - mdps - rdps - heal is really an issue or it just comes to level of organisation and self set goals.

Someone did compile this info and posted it here in a spreadsheet. It was a few months ago, so not sure how current the data is. I have searched a bit here, but haven't been able to find it.

[lyncher12]

kotbs and wp were some of the most popular classes on order iirc