so let me understand this

[Detangler]

Just delete WL and shaman from the game. Burn em to the group and start over with something else. Everyone is happy now.

[soldude]

yeah nerf all delete all close game. or just mb play?

Spoiler:

[noobwarrior]

so. most of them already know me. i play a def spec shaman and as for the wl. if you know how you have to start to then you don't need to run away .. i go backwards .. easy and the wl dies.. why the fuss .. nerf here nerf there. when it comes then it is so .. accept it ..
like WL who can't beat me in 1v1 *

[Foomy44]

If you wanted to be fair you would put a 10 sec cooldown on pounce.. then we would see real tears from Order.

It literally has exactly this. Glad you find it fair.

Yes i would love a loner spec on shaman that lets me spam run away

Move goalposts much? You are aware of all the downsides loner brings right? So just to clarify, you a shaman are constantly getting murdered by WLs that have no pet (and therfore no hard CC and lower single target damage overall) that are spamming 1 attack that isn't capable of critting on you?

They nerfed Lion at same time.. so the interplay between them seemed a bit more fair. Now they buff the lions damage and move pounce to core ability . Are you blind to see this is devastating to a Shaman?

Yes, that lion damage must be so devastating when fighting these pounce spamming WL's that can't have a lion out due to Loner tactic. How unfair.

@Twyxx yes the 80+ rr WL can 2 shot a shaman in full sov now if they miss their detaunt.

Miss their detaunt? This isn't an FPS and a WL with no pet has 0 hard CC so you mean you just didn't use it right?

[Grock]

....
Run awy nerf is long overdue and its not enough, shamans are still bane of roaming in this game and ruin it for everyone else,
...

With roaming you mean solo play? As for group play it doesn't matter, there are plenty tools to stop kiters.

and a single shaman still have enough tools up their sleeve to kite and sometimes even kill a group of people (if they missing healers or healers are particularly bad, that is)

[havartii]

It literally has exactly this. Glad you find it fair.

Yes i would love a loner spec on shaman that lets me spam run away

Move goalposts much? You are aware of all the downsides loner brings right? So just to clarify, you a shaman are constantly getting murdered by WLs that have no pet (and therfore no hard CC and lower single target damage overall) that are spamming 1 attack that isn't capable of critting on you?

They nerfed Lion at same time.. so the interplay between them seemed a bit more fair. Now they buff the lions damage and move pounce to core ability . Are you blind to see this is devastating to a Shaman?

Yes, that lion damage must be so devastating when fighting these pounce spamming WL's that can't have a lion out due to Loner tactic. How unfair.

@Twyxx yes the 80+ rr WL can 2 shot a shaman in full sov now if they miss their detaunt.

Miss their detaunt? This isn't an FPS and a WL with no pet has 0 hard CC so you mean you just didn't use it right?

The WL with pet are the ones I have trouble with, a pounce/charge/kd is not easy to defend against, when dealing with an experienced WL. As for be bringing up the spam loner spec. Yes it is an option some use and is very effective if they are in a group (more than 2) Usually paired with another class with cc. And no I don't die to the pounce ability itself, but the result of someone spamming it on you does to a shaman trying to kite. Nerfing one and buffing the other is going to get resistance from the one being nerfed (shaman) and of course all the orderlings will be happy to see any nerf to destro side and down play the buff to their side. This is nothing new and I am happy to give my perspective even if the only response is get good , l2p ect. Shaman should have got a bit of a buff to healing in exchange for the nerf. example - merging 2tactics that alone are not great but together would give a group HOT they lack. (archmage has the same tactics to be merged) and that would have been acceptable. Just a strait nerf vs strait Buff is not fair to shammy.

[Banjomissen]

Where's all the Destro white knights when you need them?

When someone questions one of their classes they are all over the thread but when someone is questioning an Order class they are silent. It's actually strange... you would think they would have their pitchforks out esp. when it comes to the mythical class, WL.

Havartii you should try playing an AM. If you have issues kiting a WL as a shaman i'm sure you'll have fun kiting any melee Destro class as an AM. Also trying to make the EoV spec work when you have one less CD reducer AND the one you have is tired to actually hitting the target and is tired to one of the least played classes and roles on Order side.

Try giving another class a go... i'm sure you relog to your Shaman quite fast and feel... well... satisfied with what you have.

[havartii]

I have an archmage as well, we could go through the abilities gladly one by one. Shaman does not get strike through and can not cleanse AM dots, while AM can cleanse Shaman. AM wins that fight Every time. Shaman can run away and reset.. but same outcome will be if he takes that fight. Do I prefer the mobility vs the extra dmg? yes but that is currently being nerfed with no compensation. Hence this post.

[Grock]

how is AM vs Shaman duel is even relevant here?

its being nerfed because it has been terribly outpeforming for years (and still is)

[havartii]

He brought up Archmage not me.. But I would gladly entertain that discussion as well.