mathematically speaking we do have a balance problem

[puzzolamistica]

I really don’t see how healers have a more difficult time on order than destro.

bo has an m3 whit aoe silence that is up in 20 second, so if u are a wp u can get picked by that.
if u are a rune u should play arround pulls and aoe kd.
if u are an am is the sme problem + u cant run away like a shammy.

dont think destro has anyhing that kill a healer faster than order triple pounce, i mean a good decent healer in an organized grp.

are we really talking about a 3ple pounce setup, plyable only in a super tryharder 6vs6 setup?????? really???

[wargrimnir]

I suppose I need to openly advise people to share their opinions and thoughts without attacking each other. Be nice, have a conversation, don't be a ****. Hugs for everyone.

[teiloh]

Is the Op who needs to make the maths since hes trying to prove something....since he didnt made any...the mathematically component is gone.

Shaman ere we go is 10 secs cd => you are wrong again

Good, competent players will drop EWG before engage, making use of its 10s duration/100% "uptime"

[teiloh]

you mean months of solo-q trying to perform against proper wbs ?? order lobbists trying to use that argument as a sign of balance....lmao

You'll have to substantiate that claim of Order being the only realm that runs pugs.

[Sulorie]

you mean months of solo-q trying to perform against proper wbs ?? order lobbists trying to use that argument as a sign of balance....lmao

You'll have to substantiate that claim of Order being the only realm that runs pugs.

It's not the only realm but unlike destro, order pugs have higher chance to get into city. There they usually meet more warbands, because destro needs at least to find some /5 pug WB to get in. Solo queue pops are almost not existing.
When you get 22 order dps in city, chances are that this is no pre-build warband at all.

[teiloh]

It's not the only realm but unlike destro, order pugs have higher chance to get into city. There they usually meet more warbands, because destro needs at least to find some /5 pug WB to get in. Solo queue pops are almost not existing.
When you get 22 order dps in city, chances are that this is no pre-build warband at all.

I understand that argument but I don't really see Order having more or less pugs in general. Destro maybe has 1 or 2 more truly organized WB on a time but it's not enough to explain the gap in city win rates.

I think a good counterexample to that is seeing the win rates skew significantly after morale dumps were nerfed. It's also worth asking why organized Destro WBs prefer to stay Destro instead of their Order alts when their Destro chars are practically 3x Sov/WL geared already.

[Twyxx]

and if peoples what to speak about pugs life they need to think why order prefer to not play tanks and healers.
is not a problem about appearance is a problem about class balance!

i have 3 tanks at level 40 2 on order and one on destro so i am able to talk about that.
destros tanks are stronger, more fun to play, more viable that is why peples that want to play tank prefer to play on destro side.
SM is a worst version of bo on 2h and snb so why sould i play a sm over a bo? because he has an m1 pounce that in a 6man perfect setup is good? yes! but form the average player experience no one will ever use this m1 properly!
kotbs and chosen are pretty close but at least if i m playing the second i can solo roam, i can have fun in a 6man and those stuffs matters!

and is the same from healers prospective, if u play healer on order side u have to play arround pulls, aoe silence from bo, aoe kd from mara.
trust me is so hard! is not impossible to do it but is stresfull!
wile if u play an healer on destro what u really fear?

I really don’t see how healers have a more difficult time on order than destro.

Ofc order PUG healer is more difficult than destro PUG healers, the amount of pug order DPS that think detaunt is a waste of a CD or pug tanks that don't use guard (or place it on a arbitrary target like a RP) makes order proper hardmode compared to Destro.

I don’t think that’s an issue bigger on order than destro. But I don’t pug, so maybe I don’t know.

[Jinxypie]

Mathematically speaking Order won 80% of last city instances.
Still need more buffs?

[Satius]

Order and Destro is not mirror realms. But they usually have "antidotes" from specific other side mechanic. For example Shadow Warrior's "Barrage" with Vengeance is aoe morale drain. As I know someone else has morale drain, cause my BG never has M4 at forts and cities, but I not so good in orders classes for know all about all. =)

This game always asks what you can oppose the opponent. And believe me, it gives you all the tools for do it. You just need to learn more closely your abilities and use not only those that give the maximum contribution, but also those that are important from the point of view of the tactics of the game. And the victory will be yours.

[sighy]

Spoiler:

and if peoples what to speak about pugs life they need to think why order prefer to not play tanks and healers.
is not a problem about appearance is a problem about class balance!

i have 3 tanks at level 40 2 on order and one on destro so i am able to talk about that.
destros tanks are stronger, more fun to play, more viable that is why peples that want to play tank prefer to play on destro side.
SM is a worst version of bo on 2h and snb so why sould i play a sm over a bo? because he has an m1 pounce that in a 6man perfect setup is good? yes! but form the average player experience no one will ever use this m1 properly!
kotbs and chosen are pretty close but at least if i m playing the second i can solo roam, i can have fun in a 6man and those stuffs matters!

and is the same from healers prospective, if u play healer on order side u have to play arround pulls, aoe silence from bo, aoe kd from mara.
trust me is so hard! is not impossible to do it but is stresfull!
wile if u play an healer on destro what u really fear?

I really don’t see how healers have a more difficult time on order than destro.

bo has an m3 whit aoe silence that is up in 20 second, so if u are a wp u can get picked by that.
if u are a rune u should play arround pulls and aoe kd.
if u are an am is the sme problem + u cant run away like a shammy.

[/spoiler]

Ok, so a thing about healers in organised warbands.
1. They never stack so hitting them all with an aoe is infeasible, at best. (So no It's not hard, at all. If you get singled out then you just gotta suck it up buttercup.)
2. They are never melee, if they can help it. Even DoK/WP usually weaves around the midrange, behind melee blob.
3. Secondary Healers commonly use insta/focussed mind rez to stabilise after morales/big cds so time spent dead ideally is around 0,75 seconds(average between 1,5 sec cast time of focussed mind rez and no cast) barring gcds, even if you die.
4. If you get focussed detaunt/other def cds and try to kite the train so that the other healers don't get harassed, while you do.
5. Even IF multiple healers get cced/killed every single competitive player has 2 health potions(and other kit included sustain like BW/SH), for that situation.
6. Shamans don't run ORvR memespec, when their job is to heal. Insta Rez, Ere We Go, Ere We Go Again, Run Away, Discipline, etc., before we even get to their actual heling tactics... something has got to give, because they only get so many tactic slots.