Where does a Black Ork fit in now??

[Sinisterror]

I'll never understand what causes people to think a blatant nerf is going to result in significant buffs to offset it if only they gives us a laundry list of things to pick from. It wasn't a mistake or miscalculation, it was a nerf. If anything, the adjustment to the prior tactic is about all the compensation that's going to come from it.

This is truly sad:E I actually loved this patch for the most parts but i did expect SH getting their range back with tactic and blorcs getting something in return. Something that is actually good/useful. Anyways, support + respect for keeping the game/memory alive. I think it's interesting that there is probably about 100-200 people still playing who would just log in and run in capitol and if nothing else was working they would log in just because the bond is very strong to this game. And i bet most of us (i am one of those sad's that would jump in capitol) try really to better the game for everyone and have more knowledge combined about live and ror that could very openly discuss and make decisions that would better the game. When people like earthcake is ignored (too much very good players with very good proposals to mention) it just reminds many of us too much LIVE in this regard that dev's didnt listen to balance proposals or discuss them openly/no explanations;(

[wargrimnir]

This is truly sad:E I actually loved this patch for the most parts but i did expect SH getting their range back with tactic and blorcs getting something in return. Something that is actually good/useful. Anyways, supports keeping the memory alive. I think it's interesting that there is probably about 100-200 people still playing who would just log in and run in capitol and if nothing else was working they would log in just because the bond is very strong to this game. And i bet most of us (i am one of those sad's that would jump in capitol) try really to better the game for everyone and have more knowledge combined about live and ror that could very openly discuss and make decisions that would better the game. When people like earthcake is ignored (too much very good players with very good proposals to mention) it just reminds many of us too much LIVE in this regard that dev's didnt listen to balance proposals or discuss them openly/no explanations;(

Sorry to say, but a lot of other people were ignored too. In fact, the vast majority of anyone who has ever written a balance proposal was ignored. The only people that weren't ignored were the ones that could relate one of their proposals to the things that happened in the patch. They must be very lucky.

[Nekkma]

I'll never understand what causes people to think a blatant nerf is going to result in significant buffs to offset it if only they gives us a laundry list of things to pick from. It wasn't a mistake or miscalculation, it was a nerf. If anything, the adjustment to the prior tactic is about all the compensation that's going to come from it.

Well, why was BOs given cd reduction in the first place? My recollection is that it was because it was the team and community's opinion that snb BO was lacking severly in utility. Removing said utility just bring the class back to a state similar to what it was before.

[wargrimnir]

I'll never understand what causes people to think a blatant nerf is going to result in significant buffs to offset it if only they gives us a laundry list of things to pick from. It wasn't a mistake or miscalculation, it was a nerf. If anything, the adjustment to the prior tactic is about all the compensation that's going to come from it.

Well, why was BOs given cd reduction in the first place? My recollection is that it was because it was the team and community's opinion that snb BO was lacking severly in utility. Removing said utility just bring the class back to a state similar to what it was before.

This is literally covered in the patch note.

- Mor' Choppin Dem replaced with the original No Choppin' Me with the following update:

Follow Me Lead and Savin' Me Hide will now provide their respective Weaponskill and Toughness buffs to group members within 100'

The original intent of providing Black Orc access to cooldown reduction was mostly due to this tactic being pretty bad in original design. However we feel that one cooldown reduction ability for each realm is more than enough, and BO having it slotted was really infringing on the group meta space that Choppas previously enjoyed. There will always be room for Black Orcs, this is something we feel Choppa should be relied on for. We may move Chop Fasta in the future during a more extensive overhaul to highlight Choppa/Slayer 2h mastery specs.

[Sinisterror]

This is truly sad:E I actually loved this patch for the most parts but i did expect SH getting their range back with tactic and blorcs getting something in return. Something that is actually good/useful. Anyways, supports keeping the memory alive. I think it's interesting that there is probably about 100-200 people still playing who would just log in and run in capitol and if nothing else was working they would log in just because the bond is very strong to this game. And i bet most of us (i am one of those sad's that would jump in capitol) try really to better the game for everyone and have more knowledge combined about live and ror that could very openly discuss and make decisions that would better the game. When people like earthcake is ignored (too much very good players with very good proposals to mention) it just reminds many of us too much LIVE in this regard that dev's didnt listen to balance proposals or discuss them openly/no explanations;(

Sorry to say, but a lot of other people were ignored too. In fact, the vast majority of anyone who has ever written a balance proposal was ignored. The only people that weren't ignored were the ones that could relate one of their proposals to the things that happened in the patch. They must be very lucky.

I understand that and im not trying to cause more headache to you or anyone who is keeping the game alive! I do blame myself and others like me who could explain the changes they propose in many different angles but for some reason we dont do it. Much love=)

[Nekkma]

It was a rethoric question. You ask why people think they should be compensated for the nerf and I suggested it is because tha buff was originally made because BO was deemed lacking utility. Either the team was dead wrong at the time and BO did not need utility or it was right and then BO is yet again in a state where it needs utility. Alot of players then and now probably is of the latter opinion.

[wargrimnir]

It was a rethoric question. You ask why people think they should be compensated for the nerf and I suggested it is because tha buff was originally made because BO was deemed lacking utility. Either the team was dead wrong at the time and BO did not need utility or it was right and then BO is yet again in a state where it needs utility. Alot of players then and now probably is of the latter opinion.

The team making changes in the past that get changed in the now doesn't make them dead wrong. It means we've come back around to evaluate something, determined there was need for a changes, and found a different solution. That's an awfully deterministic take for a rhetorical question isn't it?

[Nekkma]

It was a rethoric question. You ask why people think they should be compensated for the nerf and I suggested it is because tha buff was originally made because BO was deemed lacking utility. Either the team was dead wrong at the time and BO did not need utility or it was right and then BO is yet again in a state where it needs utility. Alot of players then and now probably is of the latter opinion.

The team making changes in the past that get changed in the now doesn't make them dead wrong. It means we've come back around to evaluate something, determined there was need for a changes, and found a different solution. That's an awfully deterministic take for a rhetorical question isn't it?

I just answered your question to why players think BOs should have been given something when cd reduction was, rightly so, removed.

1. BO lacks utility after several nerfs/adjustments -> get cd reduction
2. Destruction as a realm is to strong, not the BO, and cd redcution infringes on choppas spot (as per patchnotes) -> removes cd redcution from BO
3. Back to 1

It is not difficult to understand that some people might then be of the opinion that BO now need something (as that basically was the teams stance back then).

[Haskr]

It was a rethoric question. You ask why people think they should be compensated for the nerf and I suggested it is because tha buff was originally made because BO was deemed lacking utility. Either the team was dead wrong at the time and BO did not need utility or it was right and then BO is yet again in a state where it needs utility. Alot of players then and now probably is of the latter opinion.

The team making changes in the past that get changed in the now doesn't make them dead wrong. It means we've come back around to evaluate something, determined there was need for a changes, and found a different solution. That's an awfully deterministic take for a rhetorical question isn't it?

I just answered your question to why players think BOs should have been given something when cd reduction was, rightly so, removed.

1. BO lacks utility after several nerfs/adjustments -> get cd reduction
2. Destruction as a realm is to strong, not the BO, and cd redcution infringes on choppas spot (as per patchnotes) -> removes cd redcution from BO
3. Back to 1

It is not difficult to understand that some people might then be of the opinion that BO now need something (as that basically was the teams stance back then).

I find it interesting that the point always is: Chosen and Kotbs are such strong Tanks, so the other Tanks can barely compete and need something to elevate them to their level. At that point im asking myself: Maybe the other Tanks are not too bad, but Chosen and Kotbs are too good, so they might need a tone down. Iirc Torquemadra was planning a revamp of the Chosen/Kotbs mechanic before he left to not let it stay in that boring "switch your 3 auras on bro" state of play, maybe that should be picked up again. Not to say that Bo misses/needs some utility, as that might be the case.

The second point is that argument of warband space, small scale, ranked place that some people make. I was writing in the patch notes topic that whatever tank you play in this game, as long as you can hold a shield, you WILL get a place in any content that you wish to do (ok 2h for ranked matches), and thats just because there arent enough Chosen/Kotbs/(SM on Order) to fill the warband roster. Last City after patch I was watching Gravords stream and he tried to get 4 SM for warband (to test new changes I guess), he could only get 3, because there was just no 4th SM available it seems.

[Mordd]

I find it interesting that the point always is: Chosen and Kotbs are such strong Tanks, so the other Tanks can barely compete and need something to elevate them to their level. At that point im asking myself: Maybe the other Tanks are not too bad, but Chosen and Kotbs are too good, so they might need a tone down. Iirc Torquemadra was planning a revamp of the Chosen/Kotbs mechanic before he left to not let it stay in that boring "switch your 3 auras on bro" state of play, maybe that should be picked up again. Not to say that Bo misses/needs some utility, as that might be the case.

The second point is that argument of warband space, small scale, ranked place that some people make. I was writing in the patch notes topic that whatever tank you play in this game, as long as you can hold a shield, you WILL get a place in any content that you wish to do (ok 2h for ranked matches), and thats just because there arent enough Chosen/Kotbs/(SM on Order) to fill the warband roster. Last City after patch I was watching Gravords stream and he tried to get 4 SM for warband (to test new changes I guess), he could only get 3, because there was just no 4th SM available it seems.

I if they toned down the knights damage any more they would start healing targets they hit.