How to get ROR population up.

[ufthakk]

I think that much more than the whole NB debacle the main issue is the new (and longer) patch cycles.

I completely understand the idea that a larger time frame is better to collect data about balance but it has the unfortunate side effect of making the game seem stale.

There was an anticipation for friday patches just to see the weekly tweaks. The whole nerf/buff debates kept the community engaged and people logging to play the "flavor of the week". The whole perception that the recent patches have been lackluster might have driven people off.

Agree. + the last balance patch was controversial to say at least. Also the bugfixes lately seem pretty minor.

[wargrimnir]

Wargrimnir, lead GM and the Ban-Hammerer, is actually on record being against the NB ban and he was quite eloquent as to why, while keeping in confidence some of the internal discussions of the development team. If you stay respectful and provide real discussion he has been quite reasonable. The NB ban was likely a democratic process and he was one voice of many. I image an internal faction against NB for various reasons. My guess its use or perceived misuse in ranked.

There was a time for public discourse and I took part in it like anyone else. I stand with the team on the decisions regarding NB.

Let me understand your thinking. You accepted the majority opinion of your dev/GM peers on NB and the decision turned out to harm the game. Then you decided to stick with that bad decision even after a prolonged period of decreased population. OK.

Yes. I understand the nuance of working with a team, and being a perpetual loud asshole about disagreements after decisions are locked in just make you a problem and not a contributor. I have other things to focus on. If NB comes back up in discussion at some point in the future, I'll provide feedback with the rest of the team. In the meantime I'm not going to make development on this game harder for everyone else when decisions have already been made. Know when to move on bud, it'll save you some hair in the long run.

[Lawmay]

Wargrimnir, lead GM and the Ban-Hammerer, is actually on record being against the NB ban and he was quite eloquent as to why, while keeping in confidence some of the internal discussions of the development team. If you stay respectful and provide real discussion he has been quite reasonable. The NB ban was likely a democratic process and he was one voice of many. I image an internal faction against NB for various reasons. My guess its use or perceived misuse in ranked.

There was a time for public discourse and I took part in it like anyone else. I stand with the team on the decisions regarding NB.

Let me understand your thinking. You accepted the majority opinion of your dev/GM peers on NB and the decision turned out to harm the game. Then you decided to stick with that bad decision even after a prolonged period of decreased population. OK.

A house divided will fall, I don't blame him for standing with the team, what's he supposed to do? Complain publicly that the devs are doo doo heads for not agreeing with him? In what way would that be productive. Besides, theres more than enough of us doing that already lol.

[xoonerfree]

There was a time for public discourse and I took part in it like anyone else. I stand with the team on the decisions regarding NB.

Let me understand your thinking. You accepted the majority opinion of your dev/GM peers on NB and the decision turned out to harm the game. Then you decided to stick with that bad decision even after a prolonged period of decreased population. OK.

A house divided will fall, I don't blame him for standing with the team, what's he supposed to do? Complain publicly that the devs are doo doo heads for not agreeing with him? In what way would that be productive. Besides, theres more than enough of us doing that already lol.

Since you asked. I hope that any rational and deliberated committee decision would be reevaluated in light of known outcomes. There's no shame in reversing a decision through the same committee process. I'm not sure why anyone is suggesting one person make the decision? Committees just like individuals can make mistakes.

[Lawmay]

Let me understand your thinking. You accepted the majority opinion of your dev/GM peers on NB and the decision turned out to harm the game. Then you decided to stick with that bad decision even after a prolonged period of decreased population. OK.

A house divided will fall, I don't blame him for standing with the team, what's he supposed to do? Complain publicly that the devs are doo doo heads for not agreeing with him? In what way would that be productive. Besides, theres more than enough of us doing that already lol.

Since you asked. I hope that any rational and deliberated committee decision would be reevaluated in light of known outcomes. There's no shame in reversing a decision through the same committee process. I'm not sure why anyone is suggesting one person make the decision? Committees just like individuals can make mistakes.

Agreed, and I fully wish they would reverse their decision. I genuinely think it would be best for the game, and I don't think I'm alone in that. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I don't think the dev team, or the anti-NB players foresaw JUST how much it would hurt the population. They knew they would lose people, just not this many.

At this point I think its a matter of pride, not wanting to admit they were wrong, despite their intentions being good. I would hope that if they do end up reversing the decision, my fellow NB supporters would have the tact not to respond with juvenile crap like "lolololol they caved lmao" and instead show them respect for having the courage to undo what is, in my opinion a bad decision.

[punk7712]

I am a relatively new player, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. That said, a wipe is an amazing idea. That is how a lot of other online RPGs maintain their players. Path of Exile and Diable 3 are great examples. It also worked extremely well for the Shadowbane emulators.

The options are keep adding higher tier chase items for top end players, or wipe and make them start over. The problem with adding more at the top end is that it widens the gap between them, and casual/newer players. If you decided to go with wipes every 3 to 6 months, you could speed up progression a bit as a carrot for people rerolling. You could also add in some extremely low effort thematic rewards for each season(wipe).

If you sell it correctly, I guarantee you with 110 percent certainly you will get a huge influx of returning players. Just post an announcement in the news sections stating something along the lines of - "Return of Reckoning Season 1 coming January 1st! The Skaven have overrun our lands. Level to renown rank 40 and receive a season exclusive rat pet!"

[Sulorie]

Brilliant idea, why nobody else had this in mind?

[ChicagoJoe]

Not a fan of a wipe, but would favor more x2 weekends. A cross realm account chest would discourage multiple accounts and allow for transfer of potions materials and gold. Cross realming IMHO is good as you get a better perspective of what needs balancing and what doesn't, and if penalties for losing are removed or reduced you could reduce zerging by encouraging fighting back. In effect you start anew on another realm. ~5yrs of order for me and last 6-7 months of Destro. View from both sides is balance is decent but could be tweaked for large scale.

[Alfa1986]

If yes, NB needs to come back
If no, then enjoy it while it lasts, population loss in multiplayer games tends to compound on itself.

This isn't me trying to insult any devs or players, I'm simply trying to lay out the reality of the situation as best as I can.

Even if you feel the game is better without nb, is it "losing at least half the population with more to come" better? Thats the question that needs to be asked at this point, your answer is your own, but that is the current relevant question.

Sadly I think the horse has left the barn so to speak with NB. I dont think too many would come back if they unbanned it. Furthermore people who celebrated it demise would become disgruntled and leave. At best you get some back but some leave leading to a zero sum gain.

The big mistake in the NB removal was not having a alternative ready and working before it was done plus the abruptness of its banning.

Sadly, I think you might be correct. I know a fair few people would come back, my self included...but I think quite a few would leave as well in response because of the devs caving to "people crying about wanting to be able to cheat"...while at the same time bemoaning the low population. It may very well be a "you can't put the genie back in the bottle" situation, but its the best attempt I can think of to get the pop back up, or atleast stop it from dropping even further.

Well, but I think you're both wrong, people have no reason to leave if NB becomes legal again, even if they don't like it, because they don't like the low population much more. They played the same way before, when NB was allowed until May, why would they have to leave now? But the population will increase, and this is a fact. Of course, it is naive to think that everything will immediately become good, and the level of numbers will increase as before May, but even if 10-20% of the left 50% return, this is already at least 1-2 warbands in rvr. In addition, people who used to play 2-6 hours a day, and now 2-3 hours a week, will most likely also play as before, and there are a lot of such people too.
As for the notion of "saving face" or "being led by the crowd", I do not think that it is worth thinking about it now and paying attention to it, it is so obvious to everyone anyway that the decision was not entirely planning, a little spontaneous and not correct, without the right taking into account the consequences. but only the person who does nothing is not mistaken. after all, they can open it temporally and always ban it again.

[punk7712]

Brilliant idea, why nobody else had this in mind?

Thanks. These are clearly not my ideas though. I picked it up from the greatest game developer of all time - Chris Wilson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM_5S55jUzk