Population cap for attackers during forts

[Devonya]

Personally I like the RvR weekly because it gives us some extra rewards for playing RvR which is one of the main selling points of the game. I'm sure it could be reworked to have less demanding objectives so it doesn't encouraging all the xrealming to force forts spawns.

[saupreusse]

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I'm unsure if you are just not on during Order zerging or what. Were you not on at all this week?


but I never see you comment when Order zerg is active. You can't play the middle man, but then only complain when Destro are zerging. You say next time Order is zerging you'll defend Destro? Okay, next time Order zerg I'd like to see a thread from you about it.

yes i usually play every day but i have a rare thing known as a full time job, so i can't play 24/7 like destro do and those Order who can exploit the quiet times to zerg,
Mon to Wed -so im playing only 7pm til 11pm GMT/CET and there was NO order zerg at all this week when i played. We got hammered all evening every evening by 58 to 65% destro save for 1 or 2 rare keep takes while destro took 20 keeps over 3 days

Thursday i didnt play at all as im sick of it. so took a break

Friday played 3.30pm til 11pm GMT/CET there was no order zerg. ( i was told by Guildies there was an order zerg 11am til 3.23pm but i was at work or on my way home from work). When i logged on we got hammered all evening by hugs imbalance numbers

Saturday played 10am til 11pm GMT/CET, there was no Order zerg. we got hammered all day long by huge numbers

Sunday played 10am til server clean out shutdown at 10.30pm GMT/CET there was no Order zerg, destro took 16 zones we took 2, destro took 6 Forts we took 0. We were hammered by huge numbers all day long, game ended up in a 2hr stalemate in eataine midd 8.30pm til 10.30pm, all Order we had were barely holding 2/3s of Destro at eataine, other 1/3 destro were casually building up reik again for another Fort as they had the numbers. Then server shut down. Now i go bed as work at 7am.
So 45 hours played and during those 45 hours 0 Forts taken destro took 50 keeps we took 10 keeps, destro took and defended MANY forts we took 0. Destro get the new Vile Weekly done in 2 days, Order never.


If Order ever do same i be first to speak out i assure you. this vile weekly has to be removed and the 3rd zone has to be unlocked again to provide players with choice. Or population cap needs imposing or live zone population cap imposing. Or simply no rewards at all if population is 60% for over 1hour or smth,

Order hammered destro 60% to 40% for half a year before the pendulum swung back to destro again.

[Fenris78]

So the next available mechanic for counter-zerging is to re-institute the cap on maximum attackers for fort to be what it used to be. Feel free to zerg away to push fort but give defenders on the under-populated realm (whoever it may be at the moment) some chance to actually fight back.

There's been no change to the fort population caps in more than a year.

The issue is that it is handing out reservation to both sides, but then a lot of the defenders that get reservations don't show up, while a higher percentage of the attackers that get reservations show up.

Issue is Attackers are not capped by defenders numbers, while defenders are capped to attackers numbers.

When you got one realm stomping with 2:1 ratio, and get forts with 160 to 80, there is clearly a capping issue. It's not about "defenders not showing" when already all of them are in the lakes, and are at best half than opposing side.
While I did see forts with 100 attackers versus 80 defenders, the latters were capped and couldnt enter until more attackers show up, I never saw such capping when defenders were just overwhelmed. That's not people "not using reservations", that's simply people not logged in to play and get enough numbers to defend.

That is the main issue we are talking here : not enough people playing (therefore not getting reservations), and forts being unbalanced instead of being ALWAYS capped to 20% difference in numbers.

And that is that issue leading to zerging zones to take easy forts (twice as much players on attacking side, uncapped), aggravated by weekly reward being "win 3 forts", instead of "participate in 3 forts".

[Fenris78]

Order hammered destro 60% to 40% for half a year before the pendulum swung back to destro again.

I would love to know the total time for each faction domination, over the years. It could be very interesting to know global stats instead of taking a recent example wich is, out of global perspective, not very relevant for a deeper analysis.

I strongly believe Destru side dominates more than half of the time ; cities results, and now fortress counters, are a pretty good indicator of that. Ofc, without global stats, I can be totally wrong, but again I'll love to get that data officially shown somewhere.

[Valarion]

It was brutal late last night (NA) after the server reset and easily felt like over 2 to 1 in Shiningway and Reikwald. Hopefully just an anomaly due to the server crash.

However, part of the problem is this damn Weekly quest. Many players I know have moved to Destro to take advantage of the flips and complete this. Its tearing guilds apart.

The Weekly quest probably needs to be fixed based on "participation" versus "winning".

[Lion1986]

that is because, if someone took even the minimal care to read, the guilds in both destro and order side are made of the very same people. So ofc, they log one side over the other and so on.

[Fenris78]

I guess it's log into one side, complete weekly in 1-2 days, then repeat on opposite faction (or rerolls on same, for that matters).

The issue is, even if you made the "win fort" to "participate in fort", it will not solve the underlying issue of population imbalance, only alleviate the visible symptoms of it (wich is aggravated by the silly weekly objective...) :/

Even if you change objective to "kill 1k characters", it's even faster to do it with zerg.
You could use a "support xx players in battle", meaning help for kills, healing and protection ; every side could achieve this, regardless of population count at any given time. Kill efficiency (hence zerg amount) would less matters, since you could achieve the objective by defending players against other faction.
The issue being, how to count the "support tick" ; from wich criteria ? It could be base on rp gain for a given action, ie. you only get contrib when you score more than XX rp on a supporting action, or something like that ?
Based on each XX amount of scored damage/protection/heal dealt ?
This way it should not heavily favor the side doing the most kills, thus not penalizing overwhelmed players, as soon they defend themselves.

The only other ways to achieve remotely "antizerg" effective means may reside in (both or either) penalizing big groups of players on same spot (at the expense of big fights efficiency/fun, wich many people enjoy obviously), or promote small group/wb play accordingly, and actually incentivize people to spread out more on zone.

Making flags and whole area more important to control/hold, making boni/mali to players (not renown/xp only boni, time proved it's far from enough) when they are more of less zerging, giving more meaningful buffs to overwhelmed faction, etc.

There are plenty of ways to do that, sadly it also means there are plenty of ways for players to abuse any system, and solution in that regards should be carefully crafted to prevent such abuse, as much as possible, and taking into account individual freedom...

Not an easy task for sure.

[Meliannia]

A sign of things to come.
Asmonbald realises his server is 92% Horde, 8% Alliance, 4 years ago it had steadily moved up to 60% vs 40% every month more alliance quit or go Horde and now it's unplayable for Alliance and it's Over. , and not only was nothing done, it was ignored, derided and even more energy put into promoting and boosting the Horde... ring any bells?

58 of the top 60 players are Horde. He cant even make an end group on Alliance but Horde within 10 secs are 100s of end game people wanting to group with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAe6gXhDCsE

Time to wake up, grudgingly greet reality but act with courage and resolve.
Please get rid of the Vile Weekly
Act on continuous growing population imbalance
Act on hourly Xrealming.

1. I agree the weekly needs to get neutral in completion, like the option to finish it if you get 1000kills that week. Or combination of capping BO's, forts and keeps and the kills, where you don't actually have to finish every objective, just have to have massive amount of one.

2.Said that, your life problems with not "seeing" the order zerg is really not our problem,

3. Order zerg was happening, you can't deny it. And listening to you stating its not happening or its not true is getting old really fast.

1. good idea this, im all for it.
2, Made me chuckle destro see 'having a full time job' as a 'life problem'. Reminds me of Asmonbald recruting for classic WoW, he wanted 24/7 kids and jobless bums, people who could play all day long every day school hols, but anyone who applied and said they had a job was instantly rejected regardless of experience or demeanor.
3. Never denied it just havent seen it myself, even said if you read above a guildy told me order zerg was 11am til 3.20pm while i was at work, and i logged on at 3.30pm. What was today? Destro 58 to 62% pop all day and they took 3 forts and 12 zones? Order took nothing? where's that Order zerg?

I understand the game rewards those who can play all day long with no real life responsibilities, but in the same context the game shouldn't punish working adults for having a full time job and be unable to access content on a daily and weekly basis now if your only choice on CET GMT Order of completing the Vile Weekly is to play during off peak times during the morning or day. That's a terribad game design or a terribad weekly which says 'oh if you chose CET GMT Order and you also work irl then don't bother playing our game.'
Your idea Number 1 would solve this.

[Meliannia]

Order hammered destro 60% to 40% for half a year before the pendulum swung back to destro again.

(with great restraint) for the 18th time this didn't happen for CET GMT Order.....

this was NA mainly west coast Order dominating' the game for weeks on end. CET GMT Order didn't benefit from this at all
For THREE years we have never had a zerg or the numbers or anywhere close to one, we may hit the dizzy heights of 52% population now and again, and once a fortnight hit 54%, but that's as good as it gets due to having to play against huge active destro guilds like FMj and their allies, Freebooterz and their allies et al et al et al playing 18hrs a day EVERY DAY in our time zone.
The non stop zones and keeps and forts and cities you talk about which NA Order kept facerolling were at 2am til 5am while CET GMT we were ASLEEP

im aware destro keep repeating this 'oh but there was an order zerg for months' mantra at every available possibility now multiple times a day on many posts and while it is true BUT for the 18th time, THIS.... WAS.... NOT... CET/GMT.... ORDER. we were asleep and got nothing out of it, we have always been heavily outnumbered every day by CET GMT destro.

I would also point out even during the NA west coast order zerg days, while taking empty zones and keeps and forts, Order still lost 80 to 90% of cities so its hardly order hammering destro with an end game win rate of 10%, is it?

[Meliannia]

I would love to know the total time for each faction domination, over the years. It could be very interesting to know global stats instead of taking a recent example wich is, out of global perspective, not very relevant for a deeper analysis.

I strongly believe Destru side dominates more than half of the time ; cities results, and now fortress counters, are a pretty good indicator of that. Ofc, without global stats, I can be totally wrong, but again I'll love to get that data officially shown somewhere.

LOTD now also Destro domination, numbers domination, over in 1hour win by 2000 points or more....