SC queueing is working as intended and driving players away?

[Mordd]

Discordant works mostly for what it is, But you cant do weekend events with it normally.

Trying to get the weekend event done solo is a complete broken mess.
The match maker actively tries to put premade vs pugs. This is something many of my guild have noticed as we run groups and solo queue.

A repeatable example.
last night we were queueing as 3 -4 for a while. We got mostly a set guild premade against us.
A few guild logged in and we filled to a full 6. We did not see the guild premade again while 6.
After a while a few logged and then we started getting the premade again.

This isnt a one night thing. its a steady pattern and drives newer and old existing players from the game.
You cant normally do the weekend event queueing discordant and even when you can the map will only pop randomly.
I watched 3 newer players in an SC say they were done with the game. All they knew was either side they played they get steam rolled.

it needs to do a better job of mixing solos in with a premade and not putting premades vs pugs most of the time. Have the premades fight each other more.

[Mordd]

Oh and the all healers and tanks in one sc while the other sc going has all DPS is garbage also.

[wargrimnir]

The weekend events are not intended to be part of the pug queue. It's not broken.

Playing solo during a weekend event is the same as playing solo in any other normal queue. There are people trying harder than you to win. Premade is not a bad word, it's good actually. You have the same options available. Make some friends, play together. That's a massive part of the MMO genre.

[bradbury111]

Driving away players? I don't think so.

After some matches of the current event I started to watch how the spots are filled before the start and indeed the seeding feels a bit off?
This is my full run of the current event if can be helpfull to anyone.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

[Mordd]

And wargrim

It does not address that it stacks premades vs gugs when posible.
Also Im in a guild, a pretty active NA guild. Guild and friends arent always on or available for a SC group.
Also back to the main point. Stacking premades vs pugs when ever it can.
Losing players on a hurting server over it. Most of the players this effects the worst are from say the Peon wave that are almost all gone already.

[wargrimnir]

And wargrim

It does not address that it stacks premades vs gugs when posible.
Also Im in a guild, a pretty active NA guild. Guild and friends arent always on or available for a SC group.
Also back to the main point. Stacking premades vs pugs when ever it can.
Losing players on a hurting server over it. Most of the players this effects the worst are from say the Peon wave that are almost all gone already.

It is a rather simple queue. If there's enough people on each side to create a scenario instance, people on both sides are added to it. Then people are added to fill the rest of the slots.

You are focused on a solo experience where there isn't one designed, and that's your expectation, not ours. You may adjust your expectation to match reality and find it is working correctly. If you want to play the discordant queue for a solo experience, it's available for you. If you want to participate in the weekend warfronts, then form a group for best results. We understand not everyone is going to play every kind of content, and when PvP is concerned, having coordination with a group is always going to be an advantage you should grow and learn towards.

[Mordd]

And wargrim

It does not address that it stacks premades vs gugs when posible.
Also Im in a guild, a pretty active NA guild. Guild and friends arent always on or available for a SC group.
Also back to the main point. Stacking premades vs pugs when ever it can.
Losing players on a hurting server over it. Most of the players this effects the worst are from say the Peon wave that are almost all gone already.

It is a rather simple queue. If there's enough people on each side to create a scenario instance, people on both sides are added to it. Then people are added to fill the rest of the slots.

You are focused on a solo experience where there isn't one designed, and that's your expectation, not ours. You may adjust your expectation to match reality and find it is working correctly. If you want to play the discordant queue for a solo experience, it's available for you. If you want to participate in the weekend warfronts, then form a group for best results. We understand not everyone is going to play every kind of content, and when PvP is concerned, having coordination with a group is always going to be an advantage you should grow and learn towards.

Warg you are not a programmer. you repeat what you are told.
Everyone that plays knows its not that simple.

Many times when solo queueing at the same time as friends one person can go several pops with no pop as their friends get multiple SC pops.
Queueing as a 5 man is very hard to get pops on even though all the MM has to do is ad one solo player.
Queueing as a full group will get pops much faster than 6 solo queueing.
these are basics that most players with much experience know. So no it is not as basic and simple as you believe. There is more going on with the MM. As with any system like that there can be unintended consequences to basic small modifications. Something as simple as say prioritizing healers and tanks could cause the MM to stack one SC with all healer and tanks and leaving a second SC with only DPS. I program 4 different languages I have seen things like that happen many times and a system might seem like its ok under normal circumstances and only show problems at extremes of lower than expected or more than expected numbers.

its posible its just random. But the thing is with computers. Nothing is truly random. one of the hardest things to do in programming is to make a random number generator that appears actually random. Because there is no such thing as random in a computer.

[wargrimnir]

And wargrim

It does not address that it stacks premades vs gugs when posible.
Also Im in a guild, a pretty active NA guild. Guild and friends arent always on or available for a SC group.
Also back to the main point. Stacking premades vs pugs when ever it can.
Losing players on a hurting server over it. Most of the players this effects the worst are from say the Peon wave that are almost all gone already.

It is a rather simple queue. If there's enough people on each side to create a scenario instance, people on both sides are added to it. Then people are added to fill the rest of the slots.

You are focused on a solo experience where there isn't one designed, and that's your expectation, not ours. You may adjust your expectation to match reality and find it is working correctly. If you want to play the discordant queue for a solo experience, it's available for you. If you want to participate in the weekend warfronts, then form a group for best results. We understand not everyone is going to play every kind of content, and when PvP is concerned, having coordination with a group is always going to be an advantage you should grow and learn towards.

Warg you are not a programmer. you repeat what you are told.
Everyone that plays knows its not that simple.

Many times when solo queueing at the same time as friends one person can go several pops with no pop as their friends get multiple SC pops.
Queueing as a 5 man is very hard to get pops on even though all the MM has to do is ad one solo player.
Queueing as a full group will get pops much faster than 6 solo queueing.
these are basics that most players with much experience know. So no it is not as basic and simple as you believe. There is more going on with the MM. As with any system like that there can be unintended consequences to basic small modifications. Something as simple as say prioritizing healers and tanks could cause the MM to stack one SC with all healer and tanks and leaving a second SC with only DPS. I program 4 different languages I have seen things like that happen many times and a system might seem like its ok under normal circumstances and only show problems at extremes of lower than expected or more than expected numbers.

its posible its just random. But the thing is with computers. Nothing is truly random. one of the hardest things to do in programming is to make a random number generator that appears actually random. Because there is no such thing as random in a computer.

I am not simply repeating what I am told. This is very rarely ever the case.

I have more than enough experience with coding to be able to look at code and understand it. Granted, it's not a full time job of mine, I don't particularly enjoy that sort of challenge, and my skillset is not close to be a standalone core developer. I have an established role on the team and have been around for a very long time working with many developers over many years on many different systems. I thought it was fairly common knowledge that I do contribute to some degree with design on the team, and have a general understanding of how things work and why they work. That's why when people post things that are wrong, I can frequently, accurately, correct them.

Queueing as a full group gets you a faster pop because the matchmaker already knows one side has 6 available. This doesn't contradict what I said. The wait time for each match is very short, only 60 seconds, and has been for a couple of months. Before that it would create matches as soon as enough people were in the queue. Currently the matchmaker will check, first come first serve, for full groups on both sides, then partial groups, then solo players. If it can find anything that creates at least a 4v4 match, it will do so, and then it will attempt to fill the remaining slots as the scenario continues every 30 seconds. There's no randomization involved, it does not try to match groups to item level or renown rank. It does not try to make sure each team has healers or tanks. It simply finds the number of people on each side and creates a scenario. I have specific detailed understanding about this because the last time it was touched, I was working with the dev on it.

The problem with adding more complexity to a queue system is the increase of time between matches. We've done this before, people were very mad they had to wait up to 15 minutes between scenarios, so we turned it off. Could we make sure each group has 1 tank and 1 healer? Yes. We could. But it would take much longer for each scenario. Could we make sure that renown or item level are used to make sure the matches are balanced in power? Yes. We could. But it would take much longer for each scenario. It is a simple matchmaking queue to make sure at least the sides are even before the match is started.

You want it to work differently from how it is designed. That's clear, and we've tried some different things. However, people don't want to wait. The current system is not broken, it is not a bug, it is not some tinfoil hat randomization conspiracy based on code you've never seen. It's actually working as intended.


TL;DR For the people in the back. If you want to be successful in general scenarios (including weekend warfronts), the optimal way to do so is to form full groups and coordinate with your team.

If you want to queue solo and enjoy a more casual experience, play the Discordant queue.

[Tyrex2017]

About match maker broken I can confirme it s true. I m leveling a BlackOrc atm only whit scenario. All this day destro had 0 or 1 healer and order had balanced setup. Discordant or not discordant scenarios. When you loose 70% of scenario because imbalance setup, it s a big turn off the game from new comers. Match maker seems to be broken atm.

[Secrets]

About match maker broken I can confirme it s true. I m leveling a BlackOrc atm only whit scenario. All this day destro had 0 or 1 healer and order had balanced setup. Discordant or not discordant scenarios. When you loose 70% of scenario because imbalance setup, it s a big turn off the game from new comers. Match maker seems to be broken atm.

All day in T4 my experience on Order was the polar opposite of yours.
I solo queued and I knew what I was getting into. It was frustrating, but I only had myself to blame.
There were groups forming up in /5. I chose to solo queue because I didn't have a lot of time to play today.

I got pops, but they weren't quality matches. I knew that going into the game, so I have zero valid complaints here.

There's no 'matchmaking' done beyond fitting people into a queue.
If you want better match quality, form a group with your ideal group composition.

Don't have friends? Make them.
Friends not on? PUG it with 5 random people that match your friends' roles, but maybe not their gear.
PUG not getting formed? Solo queue. You know exactly what you're getting into and shouldn't complain then.

The development team should never coddle you into performing social interactions.
Get over your social anxiety if you want to play competitively. I did, and it worked.