Xrealming has completely ruined this game

[Yaliskah]

Yall banned most of the hard-core players.

Oh really ? I banned only 1 person. Haojin. For few months. Then I lifted the sanction. Making up stories doesn't make them true . So unless Haojin ( last time i checked i was in good terms with him) represent most of the hardcore gamers, you mean there was only one. Or you lie.

How many **** staff have burned themselves out? C'mon. You guys have always prioritized what you wanted to work on. Not what we want you too.

Afaik, you are a welcome guest. Not a customer. I'm not aware you pay anyone to work on this project. So unless you consider team (whatever the project this said) as your slaves, your remark is inappropriate.

Right. Cause the players are the ones that asked for the game to be left in a broken state for a year. Easily imagine our reactions? Imagination is not needed, just memory. There have been TONS of changes that fit your description over the years of RoR.

Speaking of paying. You paid for years on the official server. You probalby hated zerg fest (as on RoR), bugged then empty city instances, bugged talis, bugged dungeons, non-existent fortresses, never fixed bugs, tooo long leveling, gold seller and cheaters. Show me post you did to those ppl you paid monthly to play to complain. let me guess : Not a single one. All is said.


Initial subject was Xrealming and how it ruins the game. I don't see anywhere a dev, disconnecting ppl to send them on the other side. Do you ? Thats a player choice if such kind of behaviour reallly happens.

And since i'm a just regular player i blame no one for the way other play, and I play with the cards I'm given, mostly on the same faction since always. I'm frustrated in many ways, but i don't complain. Probably cause i have seen behind the curtain how hard it can be.

[Evilspinnre]

I hate xrealmers, they are the worst

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

Yall banned most of the hard-core players.

Oh really ? I banned only 1 person. Haojin. For few months. Then I lifted the sanction. Making up stories doesn't make them true . So unless Haojin ( last time i checked i was in good terms with him) represent most of the hardcore gamers, you mean there was only one. Or you lie.

How many **** staff have burned themselves out? C'mon. You guys have always prioritized what you wanted to work on. Not what we want you too.

Afaik, you are a welcome guest. Not a customer. I'm not aware you pay anyone to work on this project. So unless you consider team (whatever the project this said) as your slaves, your remark is inappropriate.

Right. Cause the players are the ones that asked for the game to be left in a broken state for a year. Easily imagine our reactions? Imagination is not needed, just memory. There have been TONS of changes that fit your description over the years of RoR.

Speaking of paying. You paid for years on the official server. You probalby hated zerg fest (as on RoR), bugged then empty city instances, bugged talis, bugged dungeons, non-existent fortresses, never fixed bugs, tooo long leveling, gold seller and cheaters. Show me post you did to those ppl you paid monthly to play to complain. let me guess : Not a single one. All is said.


Initial subject was Xrealming and how it ruins the game. I don't see anywhere a dev, disconnecting ppl to send them on the other side. Do you ? Thats a player choice if such kind of behaviour reallly happens.

And since i'm a just regular player i blame no one for the way other play, and I play with the cards I'm given, mostly on the same faction since always. I'm frustrated in many ways, but i don't complain. Probably cause i have seen behind the curtain how hard it can be.

Yall is an American term for "You Guys" Not Yall as in Yali. Sorry for that! But that goes to some of my points! You banned Hao. I remember Aza's return to the server, I remember the fated discord call. I remember the unban wave that occured. Are the PLAYERS responsible for the bans that preceded that or the issues that arose from it afterwards? Or was that more of a team **** up? Speaking of "I imagine easily your reaction if in this game your choices were limited by strong imposed rules." is a strange statement. That was par for the course of the server for YEARS. There's nothing to imagine. It happened. Just remember it. Edit: Do you remember players being BANNED for statements in a priv discord channel? Or on Twitch? I do. I lost friends to game with due to those "strong imposed rules".

**** happens. I don't want anyone to fall on their sword. But saying the state of the game is solely, or even a majority, a player issue is just wrong. Imo.

I never said anything about paying. Nor slaves. But you want to people to take personal accountability. We, the players, have NEVER had the power to dictate changes. The Devs do. So blaming players for changes is innappropriate imo. I made a list of things I don't believe the players are responsible for. Just because a child screams for cake doesn't mean the parent is faultless for feeding it to them.

I was 17 when I started playing on Live. yes, I made some forum posts. No, they weren't entirely well thought out or argumented. So what? I have made THOUSANDS of posts on this forum. Many of them well intentioned and helpful. That apparently means nothing to you, so why would my old posts on a different forum matter? For the record, I played Karak Norn on Live. I was in INQUISITORS then Red Guard. I believe I played at a somewhat high lvl towards the end, THAT MEANS NOTHING HERE. It was a different game, a different server, a different team, and a different decade. The $ I spent on beer in my 20's is not relevant to my purchases today.

My initial point was that Xrealming is a symptom not the root problem. I attemped to explain the root problem in my initial post. I was addressing YOUR post,, not the OP in my 2nd.

Edit: also, ,Bah Humbug on your paying argument. Many players, myself included, would of happily donated to the server. WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO. Any statement that approaches, "it's free so therefore take it or leave it but don't complain about it!" leads to people abandoning your project. I get it, it's an easy Gotcha statement, that doesn't make it particularly relevant.

EDIT2: You asked for a previous post, here's one like 18months ago. I could keep looking and find one from 3 years ago, or 5years ago, or from when I first joined. They will all read pretty much the same. I have remained fairly consistant. I do NOT believe that the Team or this Server has. Many of us have tried really hard to help from the outside. I have ALWAYS appreciated and thanked the team for their work. I apologize if my typing comes as aggressive or not respectful, that's just how I am.

p.s. Thanks for the response though!

[Uchoo]

Uchoo what do you think about changing some spells around?

Chop Fasta back to Black Orcs - It will reduce the number Shammys from 4 to 2 - or at least make Destro have a cost by fielding less BGs if they want to keep more Chop Fastas up - thus indirectly nerfing its best WB Heal and excessive slow puddles which, imo, is a big reason (alongside pulls which i think they should keep as is) why Destro has such freedom of movement.

Give IBs the Zealot's "AoE Punt with no immunities" spell and give it a long CD - it will require skill, cuz IBs will have to know when to cast it so it counters Destro's Dmg Drops and not **** their own Slayer's channeling, and if the CD is long enough it will not nullify Destro's faster morale gain. The spell should still be on CD when they are ready to turn back with M3s if the first Dmg Drop wasn't enough.

I'm personally not a fan of huge changes that shift roles around, but it does happen. Sham/Am are gonna be tougher to play in the patch with the EoV/Fury nerf so we'll see how that goes.. It's not how I would have changed things but it is what it is.

IB with Winds would be quite disruptive lol. It's risky to use as a healer because you're cloth and you're not healing, but sure I could see it.

Personally I would like to see a morale pump on 1 Order tank, IB makes the most sense in the current meta. SnB only ofc. Bitterstones would use it of course to Axe Slam everyone to death which will highlight in time another issue, morale damage stacking.

ID is being tuned down, I would like to see Rampage tuned down to the 20-25% area along with a slight nerf to Destro Tank avoidance, this makes things besides Slayers more viable. That's assuming they don't go back to Live's Avoidance Formula, which might actually ruin the game for me.

GTDC nerf seemed reasonable on test, I warned them day 1 when the pull range was buffed that it would be a problem so glad we're going back lol. Personally i would have made GTDC pull targets near the choppa, not directly to the choppa. Choppa has pretty bad damage outside of channel so we'll see how that goes, their damage isn't being nerfed like WL/Mara or deleted like Magus/Engi so maybe they're okay in the grand scheme of things. I also don't think I like the change to Slayer/Choppa channel, it's kinda yikes. BW and Sorc are going to be insane with their few small changes and the crit damage bonus on Sov being fixed for all classes.

IB needs an overhaul, Grudge is terrible and should work like Hatred.

Order with an AoE knockdown would be fun, they oonly have engi for it, gone are the days of Ruin and Destruction. Perhaps on WL or something, though the changes to roots will be a boon for Order.

I turned that into a rant and am now derailing Emil's Xrealming thread, sorry!

[Bozzax]

As pointed out x-realm is used by many simply to avoid current very poor mechanics

1. Being farmed defending keeps and objectives in one zone by a larger force
(Change the win condition, Open zones, make the larger force defend multiple zones and points instead of steamrolling a force 1/3 of their size

2. Feeding the same premade 24/7 bc they are prioritised by queue
(Revert back to fair queue times and no more gimp comps please)
(Remove surrender and solo queue, make all groups eligible for group vs group ranked just like soloers aren’t given the option to dodge groups)

3. Solo play - revert some of the highly questionable changes made by certain devs you need more then 4 classes that are valid in that context

4. Remove timer city

5. Stop using excuses and pretending this private project’s outcome isn’t a direct result of the decisions of people with power over the project

X realming is really a symptom of poor mechanics so maybe look at what cause long time players to dodge (imho mostly these forced confinements that yield a mediocre gaming experience)

[Yaliskah]

First of all, my bad, i really read "Yali". Probably cause you were quoting me and because my old eyes are tired.

This said, I haven't blamed anyone. I pointed player's choice. i never said players were playing wrong, nor the state of the game was perfect.

About the power of changing things, you have no idea what you are talking about and you provide rights and abilities that devs do not have.

Do you really think that having some ppl working like 20+ hours a week on this project on their free time have as final purpose to ruin it all ? Ofc you don't.

Do you really think they are so mentally ill they take pleasure to make players miserable ? Ofc you dont.

Do you really think they are satisfied about the state of the game and as you may think they blame players for fails ? If it was the case, yes, they would abandon and let it die, like some did in the past. Cause involving in such kind of project is exhausting at a level you don't even imagine.

No one here expect for a "thank you". All of them just hope for understanding and why not a little kindness in the face of their clumsiness. None of them is a professional and they try their best, even this best is never enough.

Speaking about Aza, we all aware he develop his own project, and in all honesty, i wish him good luck with it. Cause i know, he knows, we, past and present members of such kind of project all know what is the most difficult part of this project : Make it clear that it is not as obvious as some imagine and that it is very complicated to move forward with unshared/ convictionsor misunderstood beliefs, and with a lack of tools time and control. On side note, he himself theorized the concept of "path of least resistance". Whatever you can do or imagine, players are intelligent will always find the most profitable way tuo play the game in a manner you hadn't anticipated (dreamers are naive ).

As an exemple of what time things are taking. Making the tool for the new abilities system took quite a year dedicated to it. An event takes more time to be creatd than the time it is used ingame. Ofc, those who are coding are not those who a drawing cloaks or quests, New cities took atleast 3 years (it didn't waste coders time too).

The whole time I have been an active member (with very little knowledge), most things have been done "with a wet finger" (French expression) according all those years have been spent to learn, understand and discover, and trying with pieces of wood and string to make things working in an okayish way. Expecting more is a bit mad. And if someone promises you more than that, consider it a trap. . All this project is based on a blank page, without the slightest notice about how things were supposed to work together but some gigabytes of corrupted datas. Story would have been totally different if we had tools and the orignal source of the server...

And to finish and return on the initial post, my point was that X-Realm was a player choice who leads to good or bad situations depending the direction of the switch, but "fixing it" in a dev way would lead to another level of issues, even if the state of the game was the absolute perfection.

Nothing less, nothing more.

[Dabbart]

Do you really think that having some ppl working like 20+ hours a week on this project on their free time have as final purpose to ruin it all ? Ofc you don't.

Do you really think they are so mentally ill they take pleasure to make players miserable ? Ofc you dont.

...

WTF?! Where in ANY of my postings do you get this from?! I've never said ANYTHING remotely close to this nor do I believe it. My argument that the staff has been culpable in poor choices and actions that have led to the detriment of the server doesn't mean any form of intent. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Merging the currency was WIDELY beloved of an idea, however it now means that you can spam /surrender in SCs and get rr80 BiS with any set you want. You can zerg surf spamming targetless AoE and get everything. There were very good arguments put forth years ago on NOT merging the currency, I never saw any of those arguments countered prior to the change.(Edit: At least publicly) It just happened one day.(clearly, we were warned it was incoming, but you get the point) Good or bad for the server? Imo, bad. But most would probably disagree with me. It does afterall, make the gear grind faster and more efficient. Edit: For the record, I was in favor of the currency change at first! I disagreed with the arguments against it. I however, now think that I was wrong and they were right.

Do you really think they are satisfied about the state of the game and as you may think they blame players for fails ? If it was the case, yes, they would abandon and let it die, like some did in the past. Cause involving in such kind of project is exhausting at a level you don't even imagine.

Yes. I can. I have been involved in other priv servers before I found this one. I lived on RO(ragnarok online) priv servers for years, and was GM on 2. That was why when I joined RoR, I actually made a post offering to help the team but specifically said I never wanted to "police" the server. Helping people with bugs is MUCH different than chasing cheaters/bug abusers or, as Aza used to call them, "Chuckle-****".

It does suck, and it is hard. I wish more people would be polite to the team. But, I hold something quite close to my heart, that you don't complain about self inflicted wounds. Yall chose this, it was never forced on you. The team should, imo, make more of an effort to help each other NOT burn out. Why the **** is someone spending 20+hrs a week on RoR+their normal job/school/life? How many team members need to become "Former" before something changes...

I tried to make this point to GamesBond. It was shrugged off. The last time we saw them on this forum was Jul 02, 2022. and EVERYONE liked Gamesbond.

No one here expect for a "thank you". All of them just hope for understanding and why not a little kindness in the face of their clumsiness. None of them is a professional and they try their best, even this best is never enough.

Speaking about Aza, we all aware he develop his own project, and in all honesty, i wish him good luck with it. Cause i know, he knows, we, past and present members of such kind of project all know what is the most difficult part of this project : Make it clear that it is not as obvious as some imagine and that it is very complicated to move forward with unshared/ convictionsor misunderstood beliefs, and with a lack of tools time and control. On side note, he himself theorized the concept of "path of least resistance". Whatever you can do or imagine, players are intelligent will always find the most profitable way tuo play the game in a manner you hadn't anticipated (dreamers are naive ).

Fair. I don't speak with or for Aza. I was simply making the point on Bannings and massive changing in rules and the affects it had on the server/playerbase that was IN NO WAY the fault of the players.

As an exemple of what time things are taking. Making the tool for the new abilities system took quite a year dedicated to it. An event takes more time to be creatd than the time it is used ingame. Ofc, those who are coding are not those who a drawing cloaks or quests, New cities took atleast 3 years (it didn't waste coders time too).

And? Who decided to take that time? Who told them to do so? Now that they have been in place for awhile, did the time it took to release the extra cities add to the server? Same with ALL the low rank PvE on this server. Awesome, glad it's there. I respect the time it took to input it, but did it help the server? IMO no. As I have said COUNTLESS times, the team works on what they WANT to work on. That is perfectly fine. But you can't use personal choices as an excuse for the state of the game. Yall choose to take this path, no one else.

Great, Awesome. The new ability system sounds cool. Ofc, fixing all the bugs it's going to cause, and rebalance all the changes it will bring will take a bunch more time. Let's hope that the team decides that is the priority next though right? What if they want to make more PvE and just leave engi/magus as the new system sets them?

Look, I'm a PvP nerd. I don't care about PvE. Not everyone agrees with me, and I am sure plenty love the PvE. But my question still stands and sunk cost fallacy creeped in YEARS ago. Let's hope that the ability system reinvigorates the server. But everytime I login, I play beside people who don't understand the most basic aspects of the game. Like detaunting, assisting, strafing, addon usage, etc etc etc.

The whole time I have been an active member (with very little knowledge), most things have been done "with a wet finger" (French expression) according all those years have been spent to learn, understand and discover, and trying with pieces of wood and string to make things working in an okayish way. Expecting more is a bit mad. And if someone promises you more than that, consider it a trap. . All this project is based on a blank page, without the slightest notice about how things were supposed to work together but some gigabytes of corrupted datas. Story would have been totally different if we had tools and the orignal source of the server...

And to finish and return on the initial post, my point was that X-Realm was a player choice who leads to good or bad situations depending the direction of the switch, but "fixing it" in a dev way would lead to another level of issues, even if the state of the game was the absolute perfection.

Nothing less, nothing more.

I never asked for Xrealming to be "fixed". I have no problem with it personally.

And back to my point, Xrealming is only an issue due to how people play the game, as an endless gear grind. When players and guilds used Xrealming to chase AAO, the complaints was that EZ keep takes would suddenly become defended(I am being facetious here obviously). This is quite clearly chasing Gear/RP, however it is doing so via FIGHTING a superior force. Xrealming to the easiest side to get more locks and therefore gear/RP via doing as LITTLE as possible is, IMO a symptom of the larger server issues, not the inherent problem. You need to fix the inherent issue(the ability to gear/rank up entirely via doing nothing but /surrender and zerg) before any of the symptoms will be resolved.


Again, thank you for your response.

Edit2: Theoretical question for you. Would it be preferable to have A, as many people regularly playing the Server as possible, or B, a robust, balanced, and healthy PvP experience for those that do login? Not trying to argue the politics of either, but IMO B is the better option, and it feels like the "team" prefers A. I think that's my biggest recalcitrance towards the server and team.

[Haojin]

Oh really ? I banned only 1 person. Haojin. For few months. Then I lifted the sanction. Making up stories doesn't make them true . So unless Haojin ( last time i checked i was in good terms with him) represent most of the hardcore gamers, you mean there was only one. Or you lie.

actually torquemadra banned me for no reason, after that it got lifted (i think by you). when i asked why i got banned on "public" that time you decided to ban me for couple years iirc

[wonshot]

The One-realm per server on Live AoR had it's issues but it also forced a sence of "improve or get stuck". if you happend to be on a realm that was getting farmed, it was either forming strong guilds and alliances and compete in the campaign or get rolled. Which surely led to alot of people quitting or in some cases some servers actually had to get their **** together and push back, leading to some epic moments involving both realms pushing and everyone "winning".
But MMOs need a population and that model seem dangerous for a Beta Freetoplay private server with limmited new content coming out to freshen things up.

RoR being a private server with zero monitization will make it a Free to Play model, so anyone can tecnically own two accounts, one on each realm if they chose so realm lockouts will never fully stop crossrealming. Stopping multiaccounts this deep into the project seems dangerous and might create an uproar. (NB removal 2.0) Which the server population maybe could survive, but is it worth it?

So free to play + multi accounts allowed = crossrealming will happen. No way around it.
And as long as there is crossrealming those who were getting carried or staying on one realm might suddenly face the carrying force being on the other side balancing out the numbers if things get too steamroll'y and that feeling sucks. But one thing RoR has shown over the years, is that the logical step of putting in more effort and fighting back is very rarely acchived and instead its easier to just wait for the carries to come back to your realm and join the gravytrain again an other day. Which defeats the purpuse about of a campaign driven gamemode such as RvR, but that turd has been in a bad stage for far too long!

[Bozzax]

The main point here is that xrealming occurs mostly (everyone veterans, casuals even guilds) bc we have mechanics that forces the weaker side into the path of the stronger side. The gaming experience being on the weaker side is appalling

So instead of logging off when a premade chain-surrender -feed ppl with insta pops veterans switch sides or stop queuing separation of a solo only queue and ranked group queue further cement the dodging mentality

So when the zerg forms ppl join it bc it can simply go around in one map one bo after another until keep stomp and easy crests.

Ranked group and solo even has the same problem

Forcing and restraining a weaker side to be a renown piñata don’t make a good game.

As pointed out removal of multi account would surly cause another exodus but more importantly likely cause the death of the server bc game play for one side is locked in piñata mode