Lots of Numbers: Twilight's Tide Event Scenarios

[Brizio]

Pug sc added, not enough, event sc in pug sc pool, not enough.

An incomplete solution is incomplete and wont work well. A car without wheels is incomplete as well and wont drive well either.

What they have added was not what people requested.
- When you queue for discordant you cannot choose what you want you play.
- Up till now you couldn't play event scs in discordant and you still cannot select that you want to play event scs in discordant.
- The normal group scenarios are pulling people away from the discordant mode because a) in discord you couldn't do event scs (till now) and cannot select event scenarios specifically and b) they are popping slowly because of a) since people want to do the event tasks for rewards. Of course there are not enough people for discordant than. No solo would EVER queue for grouped scenarios if they could avoid them and play what they want to.
- Nothing has been done to counter the queue abusing by queuing at the same time or queuing as group. They know about this issue since many years. The meat grinder goes on.
- Nothing has been done to counter pops without tanks or healers on one side which are pretty much unplayable and instant loss.
- Nothing has been done to the groups creating new instances and the enemy side being filled up with pugs.

This as a whole is far from a complete and working solution. It's not working, not for the premade players because they are being bored by the pug enemies and not by the pug players because they are being stomped and stand no chance. How could anybody think that this is a working solution?

Solos were forced to join the normal scenarios just to do the event tasks. Now they can do it in discordant but they cannot choose that they want to play event scs and will again queue for normal event scenarios just to get the tasks done. That is probably the evil plan behind this. The design pulls solos into the group meat grinder. That's the reason there are not enough discordant pops. It's awful. This design clearly throws new/casuals/pugs towards farming groups.

The event sc tasks itself are not difficult to complete within the whole event duration, even without a premade.

Right, lol. Just because you are having groups to do them doesn't mean it is easy for casuals/pugs who queue up.

You can't select specific discordant sc, because this would fracture the sc pool even more.
We had once no pug sc at all. Then we had a rotating pug sc, which became quite boring after a while and already draw people away from regular sc pool. The next best solution was making them random. You still funnel the few players who want only pug sc in that queue.
When there is no weekend or event the pug queue doesn't pop any faster, you overestimate the numbers of people who can't be bothered to queue all sc.

Most pug players win because they have a premade on their side, which happen to be stronger than the enemy premade. It goes both ways. In many cases people are being rewarded for just being there.
It's time of day and luck who has the stronger players/teams in queue, you can rush through the event tasks as solo player or keep losing the whole evening, it happens. Only one side can win, it's a PVP game. It can be frustrating, this is normal.
I don't want to miss out on SC pops, because either side has only one healer against several healers or too few tanks, since with good other random players you can beat the enemy with one healer. In rare cases with no healer at all.
With such a archetype requirement those sc won't happen and you sit longer in queue than you play games.

I just realized my opinion is the oposit of yours. Entirely.

For exaple, I would, a 100%, prefer not to have a pop then to be farmed.

The entire approach to pug sc is just not good enough. Starting by the name. Some players dont even know Discordant is a solo scenario.

[agemennon675]

Spoiler:

It has been said already, but seems there is no way this mess is going to be fixed. There is just a little light at the end of the tunnel, the rework of matchmaker. But who knows when it is going to happen. There is a thread full with amazing ideas on how to improve scenarios in RoR, which has been completed neglected judging by the last patches.
Scs have become mini rvr maps where the realm with advantage smash the other and flags are completely ignored, just full meat grinder.
I am wondering why scs have been subject of changes without taking matchmaking into consideration.

Now this is on the doom and gloom category, cm said a sc matchmaker rework is coming so lets wait for it and than start dooming

The SC matchmaker rework is even older the Lost Vale.

It has been said too many times. Instead of working on the core issue they install barriers, which is one silly idea that wont fix the core issue.

Stop trying to force players to do what you want and let they choose. "Go get farmed or get a quitter debuff" is so small minded. The person who thought about that should be ashamed.

I am not forcing players into anything, I am in the same boat as you and on the same side regarding this scenario matchmaking problem but trying to keep things positive, devs and cm's really communicate with the players here more than any other games dev in fact and I also want to believe that this barrier change was not made with malicious intent they probably though it could help teams more to regroup and push at the same time with the spawn buff etc. but it didnt have the desired effect

[Sulorie]

I do enjoy how you almost always quote me and go "yeah no this is wrong because I said so."

Your opinion is noted.

Shouldn't I quote you, when responding to your comments? I guess I explained my conclusion without "I said so"-remarks.

[Brizio]

Now this is on the doom and gloom category, cm said a sc matchmaker rework is coming so lets wait for it and than start dooming

The SC matchmaker rework is even older the Lost Vale.

It has been said too many times. Instead of working on the core issue they install barriers, which is one silly idea that wont fix the core issue.

Stop trying to force players to do what you want and let they choose. "Go get farmed or get a quitter debuff" is so small minded. The person who thought about that should be ashamed.

I am not forcing players into anything, I am in the same boat as you and on the same side regarding this scenario matchmaking problem but trying to keep things positive, devs and cm's really communicate with the players here more than any other games dev in fact and I also want to believe that this barrier change was not made with malicious intent they probably though it could help teams more to regroup and push at the same time with the spawn buff etc. but it didnt have the desired effect

Oh, dont get me wrong, im greatfull for what the devs have done so far. And i wasnt saying you are forcing players to do anything, the game is. Always.

Tha doesnt mean we cant have different opinions about the game or even about how the devs communicating here, which imo they dont do any better then other games.

But the thing about scs is that they are worse now then a few years before (other stuff in the game were really improved and are enjoyable). And a lot of players that enjoy scs will quit because they are just bad now.

[lumpi33]

I just checked how often the different discordant maps were popping:

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Discordant Scenarios 26th July to 7th August:
89x Nordenwatch
76x Howling Gorge
51x Phoenix Gate <- event SC was added on 31st July (therefore number a bit lower)
55x Serpent's Passage <- event SC was added on 31st July (therefore number a bit lower)
91x Gates of Ekrund
99x The Old Dwarf Road
84x Mourkain Temple
70x Gromril Crossing
72x Reikland Factory

So, since start of Twilight's Tide:
Out of 687 discordant rounds the 2 event scs popped 106 times or 15.4% of the time.

Discordant Scenarios 31st July to 7th August:
57x Nordenwatch
51x Howling Gorge
51x Phoenix Gate <- event SC
55x Serpent's Passage <- event SC
68x Gates of Ekrund
62x The Old Dwarf Road
57x Mourkain Temple
43x Gromril Crossing
47x Reikland Factory

Since 31th July when the event scenarios were added to discordant:
Out of 491 discordant rounds the 2 event scs popped 106 times or 21.6% of the time.

So, yeah, the 2 event scenarios were added on 31th July and they do pop on discordant now but only around 22% of the time since there are 9 different scenarios available.

So basically every 5th discordant pop is an event scenario on average. That doesn't mean that you will get that pop when you non-stop queue.

So again, it's not working. When every 5th round is an event sc on average then you need around 100 rounds to complete both tasks with the 10 participations. 80 more than when queuing standard SC (100 vs 20). That's a bad joke. A complete lottery and not worth the time. You are much faster queuing specifically for the event group scs and sit it out while being stomped as solo. Now we are at the pulling out of solos from the discordant into the group meat grinder again.

[Emissary]

I have talked to Max about we should have taken 2 of the discordant scenarios off of the rotation when we added those two. That has been noted for future live events, fyi.

Thank you for all this information.

[lumpi33]

I have talked to Max about we should have taken 2 of the discordant scenarios off of the rotation when we added those two. That has been noted for future live events, fyi.

Thank you for all this information.

ok, that would be a slight improvement then. Lets do the math:

Currently:
100/9 = 11.11% chance a map is going to pop

If you had removed 2:
100/7 = 14.28% chance a map would pop

So you go from around every 5th round being an event SC (11.11% x 2 = 22.22% since there are two event scs) to around every 3-4th round being an event SC (14.28% x 2 = 28.56% chance).

To finish both 10 participation tasks with discordant you need each of the two scenarios 10 times. With a chance of 11.11% to get a specific event SC you would need around 90 rounds to finish one task and another 90 rounds to finish the other. 180 rounds for both! Right? Can anybody confirm my math? I was actually wrong in my previous post because I said every 5th round is an event SC and you therefore need 100 rounds for 20 participations but that would mean that you would need to get an even amount of both event SCs which you most likely wont get. Your chance to get a certain SC is only 11.11%, therefore 90 rounds on average are needed for the 10 participation tasks of that SC. (check: 11.11% of 90 is 10 - which is the rounds you need)

With 7 SCs in discordant the chance would be 14.28% to get a specific scenario. So you would need around 70 rounds to finish one task and another 70 for the other. 140 rounds in total.

If my math is correct than that is an insane amount of discordant rounds you would have to play. 180 or 140 maybe next time. You would be done in only 20 normal group scs rounds. How is that fair for solos?

Sorry but that doesn't seem to be a solution just a very little improvement at best.

[lumpi33]

I've just checked how much the discordant players have got done so far (31st July to 7th August - the time since the event SCs are in the discordant queue):

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Questing: Total: 198 Ph: 20 Serp: 19
Redyes: Total: 105 Ph: 5 Serp: 8
Annalena: Total: 93 Ph: 7 Serp: 5
Eleonar: Total: 90 Ph: 9 Serp: 8
Ravandin: Total: 89 Ph: 10 Serp: 8
Brarek: Total: 78 Ph: 7 Serp: 9
Oxxo: Total: 74 Ph: 4 Serp: 6
Magik: Total: 73 Ph: 7 Serp: 9
Stelio: Total: 65 Ph: 5 Serp: 13
Quocem: Total: 63 Ph: 7 Serp: 6
Squigglewiggle: Total: 61 Ph: 7 Serp: 6
Maude: Total: 58 Ph: 6 Serp: 6
Hoodoo: Total: 56 Ph: 7 Serp: 5
Limalas: Total: 56 Ph: 2 Serp: 1
Diwa: Total: 53 Ph: 2 Serp: 6
Katsumy: Total: 51 Ph: 2 Serp: 4
Softstrikes: Total: 51 Ph: 8 Serp: 3
Lehun: Total: 50 Ph: 6 Serp: 6
Pavlotron: Total: 50 Ph: 4 Serp: 8

So, there is only ONE player so far that would have finished both live event participation tasks with only discordant. 198 rounds played.

Eleonar and Ravandin are close with around 90 rounds played. Redyes however has already 105 rounds played and is not there yet.

There are also players that were very unlucky with the event pops. Like Limalas.

Looks like you need above 100 rounds to get both tasks done with discordant only. For sure A LOT more than with normal SCs.

[Sulorie]

How many of them care about doing event with discordant sc only? Is it even intended to complete with discordant only or is it just an addition if normal sc going bad due to uneven numbers of premades in queue?

[Brizio]

I've just checked how much the discordant players have got done so far (31st July to 7th August - the time since the event SCs are in the discordant queue):

Code: Select all

Questing: Total: 198 Ph: 20 Serp: 19
Redyes: Total: 105 Ph: 5 Serp: 8
Annalena: Total: 93 Ph: 7 Serp: 5
Eleonar: Total: 90 Ph: 9 Serp: 8
Ravandin: Total: 89 Ph: 10 Serp: 8
Brarek: Total: 78 Ph: 7 Serp: 9
Oxxo: Total: 74 Ph: 4 Serp: 6
Magik: Total: 73 Ph: 7 Serp: 9
Stelio: Total: 65 Ph: 5 Serp: 13
Quocem: Total: 63 Ph: 7 Serp: 6
Squigglewiggle: Total: 61 Ph: 7 Serp: 6
Maude: Total: 58 Ph: 6 Serp: 6
Hoodoo: Total: 56 Ph: 7 Serp: 5
Limalas: Total: 56 Ph: 2 Serp: 1
Diwa: Total: 53 Ph: 2 Serp: 6
Katsumy: Total: 51 Ph: 2 Serp: 4
Softstrikes: Total: 51 Ph: 8 Serp: 3
Lehun: Total: 50 Ph: 6 Serp: 6
Pavlotron: Total: 50 Ph: 4 Serp: 8

So, there is only ONE player so far that would have finished both live event participation tasks with only discordant. 198 rounds played.

Eleonar and Ravandin are close with around 90 rounds played. Redyes however has already 105 rounds played and is not there yet.

There are also players that were very unlucky with the event pops. Like Limalas.

Looks like you need above 100 rounds to get both tasks done with discordant only. For sure A LOT more than with normal SCs.

Its kinda funny. The number 1 is Questing. A Knight tough af that doesnt need a healer at all. He is very determined about objective, its annoying to play against him. He is a honey badger.