[Poll] Class balance of 2024

[mazi761111]

just want back 1.1s gcd

[Alubert]

All changes are fine. The best one is WS/Ini (most Logic) changes and SL/Choppa nerf (now we have others dpses in game)

[Pesteavino]

Choppa and slayer suck , give them some love plz

[Gravord]

I don't see the point of rating individual patches. What sort of information are we supposed to gather from that?

Probing community’s reception of the various patches and the changes they brought.

This poll is a mess. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish with it?

To gather community feedback on an important topic. Private servers live and die based on the commitment of their player base. Balance changes have a substantial impact on this, and the staff should be aware of how their efforts in this area are perceived.

Okay. So what are you going to do with the data? What do you hope to show? How are folks supposed to interpret the results? I find it unlikely to be useful because each patch has a lot of stuff in it and are snapshots in time working towards an end goal that few outside the dev team know about.

Potentially more useful questions for a poll:
- Do you think the last several patches are moving the game in the right direction? For PvP? For PvE?
- What area of the game requires the most developer attention at the moment e.g. Class Balance, Campaign, Scenarios, etc?
- How would you rate each of these areas of the game on a scale from 1 to 10 e.g. RvR, PvE, Guilds, Socializing, Community Help, Gearing, Renown Ranks, etc?

This would at least provide feedback to the devs about potential areas of improvement although they already have a regime for questionnaires in place so not even sure of the value of that.

Personally? Nothing. It’s an opportunity for the community to express their opinions and for the staff to review them
I fully agree that more polls would be useful. I already have one in mind for when this one stops gaining new votes.

I also think we should vote for pve changes separately. Pve team did awesome job!

They did indeed. Hopefully, someone will create a poll for those changes too. Personally, I haven’t had the chance to test the newest things yet.

[leftayparxoun]

Pre-emptive analysis (will update it in a week or so with, hopefully, more newer votes):

Here's the data so far

• The first group corresponds to the entire data from the votes so far.

• The second group is the same data but having removed incorrect votes that happened by misunderstanding how to vote. Those were singular votes at the same update slot as the vote number. E.g. Only voting 3 in Update 3 or only voting 5 in update 5. Those were discarded and the updated results are marked with *

• The third group is the result of also not taking into account uniform votes (e.g. 1 or 5 for all update votes). Those were discarded because they do not reflect any opinion regarding the differences between the updates. The final results are marked with **

I chose to further examine the third group of results, but going with the 2nd one could have also been valid in my opinion.
The average result of the votes indicates how popular each update was.
The standard deviation of the votes indicates how divisive an update was (high STD = divisive update)
For example an update with a mean of 1 and standard deviation of 0.5 means that it was very disliked and most people agree with that.
On the other end, an update with a mean of 3 and standard deviation of 2 means that the public opinion about it is overall neutral, but a lot of people disagree on (some love it, some hate it).

From the votes cast so far:


We can see that public opinion is pretty much neutral regarding all updates with the average vote falling somewhere between 2.5 and 3.3
Update 1 is a bit more likeable than the rest, while updates 6 and, especially, 5 are less liked.
Regarding standard deviation, we see that there is similar variance of opinions for most updates (around 1.1 to 1.3)
However, there is one clear outlier; that being update 6 that is clearly the most divisive with an STD of 1.65

Interpretation:

• Update 2 came with big changes for tank classes and especially for Black Orc and Swordmaster, who both received a ST punt. It also homogenised the Tank Damage channels, reworked Mara's Monstrosity proc and finally nerfed the duration in Covenant of Celerity's snare. Finally, it also homogenised the Book/Chalice resource gain to 10/s across the board, increasing build variability for DOK/WP and making them feel a bit less clunky with regard to resource management.
  Overall I can see how this update is the most popular due to addressing long standing issues (lack of ST punt, CoC, Mara being too tanky for a mdps) and bringing also some nice QoL stuff (DOK/WP resource gain, Tank channels)

• Update 5 brought forth significant nerfs in the efficiency damage procs (from BW/Sorc/DOK/WP) and also decreased the hitrate of the Mara/WL channels (who were the prime candidates for maximizing the value of procs). It also came with nerfs to Slayer and Choppa that while aiming to decrease the effectiveness of AOE builds in smallscale, also impacted them in orvr too. It also introduced a big change to Wind of Insanity for Zealots by making it a channel.
  This update is the most disliked one from the votes cast so far. I would imagine this is due to both bringing nerfs all across the board without any buffs to accompany them and potentially because it was heavily disliked by Slayer/Choppa mains.

• Update 6 introduced the changes to Weapon Skill and Initiative regarding parry% reduced chance to be crit%. It also brought a minor nerf for BW/Sorcs and a big utility/survivability hit for ranged Squig Herder. It also partially reversed some of the Choppa/Slayer changes from update 5. Finally it also completely reworked Zealot and Runepriest marks/runes and their entire off-specs.
  It seems natural to me to see that this update is the most divisive one for various reasons; lot's of people disliked the INI/WS changes, many disliked the SH nerfs. Others rejoiced about them. Slayers and Choppas became a bit more happy and Zealot/RP players should have also enjoyed it quite a bit. Overall it seemingly is the 2nd most disliked update so far, presumably due to the WS/INI changes.

As 20 votes is a quite small sample size to draw conclusions from, I'm awaiting for more votes to see if/how things change.

[Hugatsaga]

This poll is a mess. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish with it?

Don't hate the idea of gathering this kind of feedback from time to time, I think it's actually pretty good idea. As for the purpose of this particular initiative, if I had to guess, I'd say mr. Gravord is planning for comeback in balance team / lead dev prospect position and is gathering campaigning material.

[Tuxedo013]

Redirected Force rework for SM was bad,it was the only long distance punt available on order (not big height).Hoeth's Tempest addition was a bad decidion. Too low punt distance and requiering a tactic to be semi-usefull with miserable distance.

Redirected Force requiered rework in terms of not being undefendable and alowing it to be used in 2h spec meaning alowing it to proc from both parry and block rather than leaving it block only. This way you alow both sides to have usefull long distance punt!

[Nameless]

I liked the speed of patching at the start of 24. Even if u do mistakes you could patch that within a week or two. Lately patches are too slow and you know if something is not well planned you will wait 2-3 months to be fixed/changed.
So we need more codders that work on main game parts

[Gravord]

Pre-emptive analysis (will update it in a week or so with, hopefully, more newer votes):

Here's the data so far

• The first group corresponds to the entire data from the votes so far.

• The second group is the same data but having removed incorrect votes that happened by misunderstanding how to vote. Those were singular votes at the same update slot as the vote number. E.g. Only voting 3 in Update 3 or only voting 5 in update 5. Those were discarded and the updated results are marked with *

• The third group is the result of also not taking into account uniform votes (e.g. 1 or 5 for all update votes). Those were discarded because they do not reflect any opinion regarding the differences between the updates. The final results are marked with **

I chose to further examine the third group of results, but going with the 2nd one could have also been valid in my opinion.
The average result of the votes indicates how popular each update was.
The standard deviation of the votes indicates how divisive an update was (high STD = divisive update)
For example an update with a mean of 1 and standard deviation of 0.5 means that it was very disliked and most people agree with that.
On the other end, an update with a mean of 3 and standard deviation of 2 means that the public opinion about it is overall neutral, but a lot of people disagree on (some love it, some hate it).

From the votes cast so far:


We can see that public opinion is pretty much neutral regarding all updates with the average vote falling somewhere between 2.5 and 3.3
Update 1 is a bit more likeable than the rest, while updates 6 and, especially, 5 are less liked.
Regarding standard deviation, we see that there is similar variance of opinions for most updates (around 1.1 to 1.3)
However, there is one clear outlier; that being update 6 that is clearly the most divisive with an STD of 1.65

Interpretation:

• Update 2 came with big changes for tank classes and especially for Black Orc and Swordmaster, who both received a ST punt. It also homogenised the Tank Damage channels, reworked Mara's Monstrosity proc and finally nerfed the duration in Covenant of Celerity's snare. Finally, it also homogenised the Book/Chalice resource gain to 10/s across the board, increasing build variability for DOK/WP and making them feel a bit less clunky with regard to resource management.
  Overall I can see how this update is the most popular due to addressing long standing issues (lack of ST punt, CoC, Mara being too tanky for a mdps) and bringing also some nice QoL stuff (DOK/WP resource gain, Tank channels)

• Update 5 brought forth significant nerfs in the efficiency damage procs (from BW/Sorc/DOK/WP) and also decreased the hitrate of the Mara/WL channels (who were the prime candidates for maximizing the value of procs). It also came with nerfs to Slayer and Choppa that while aiming to decrease the effectiveness of AOE builds in smallscale, also impacted them in orvr too. It also introduced a big change to Wind of Insanity for Zealots by making it a channel.
  This update is the most disliked one from the votes cast so far. I would imagine this is due to both bringing nerfs all across the board without any buffs to accompany them and potentially because it was heavily disliked by Slayer/Choppa mains.

• Update 6 introduced the changes to Weapon Skill and Initiative regarding parry% reduced chance to be crit%. It also brought a minor nerf for BW/Sorcs and a big utility/survivability hit for ranged Squig Herder. It also partially reversed some of the Choppa/Slayer changes from update 5. Finally it also completely reworked Zealot and Runepriest marks/runes and their entire off-specs.
  It seems natural to me to see that this update is the most divisive one for various reasons; lot's of people disliked the INI/WS changes, many disliked the SH nerfs. Others rejoiced about them. Slayers and Choppas became a bit more happy and Zealot/RP players should have also enjoyed it quite a bit. Overall it seemingly is the 2nd most disliked update so far, presumably due to the WS/INI changes.

As 20 votes is a quite small sample size to draw conclusions from, I'm awaiting for more votes to see if/how things change.

Great breakdown, hopefully we will get lot more votes to get better picture.

This poll is a mess. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish with it?

Don't hate the idea of gathering this kind of feedback from time to time, I think it's actually pretty good idea. As for the purpose of this particular initiative, if I had to guess, I'd say mr. Gravord is planning for comeback in balance team / lead dev prospect position and is gathering campaigning material.

Nah, no campaign. Simple curiosity.

[tefnaht]

This poll is a mess. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish with it?

Don't hate the idea of gathering this kind of feedback from time to time, I think it's actually pretty good idea. As for the purpose of this particular initiative, if I had to guess, I'd say mr. Gravord is planning for comeback in balance team / lead dev prospect position and is gathering campaigning material.

It's a tricky thing, some people don't visit forum, some people already gone(probably because of patches), some people missed previous state of balace... It's some kind of survivorship bias(logical error).

If you want to know what is going on with GaaS project - you need raw statistics from server and person who can to analyze it. In context of poll, what the amount of respec\reroll\drop game players after each patch? between patches? what DAU-WAU-MAU spread between classes in dynamics, clasterized by rr\equipment level? Numbers will be low, but still it would be "lesser bias" information.