[SL] - Reckles Gample issues

[shoelessHN]

And it all happened because they refused to implement the simple solution and revert a change. Before the ability rework last year, procs had an icd. The obvious solution would be to re-add the icd. RoR devs implemented a ton of changes (proc/damage modifier interactions, channel tic rates, sorc/bw mechanic nerf, and who knows how many others I’m forgetting).

Well blurring shock had no ICD (on keep lords at least) and now it does. So it's not like they nuked them completely.

[JohnnyWayne]

naturally you will not outperform WL in raw damage, but you should outperform them most of the time in kill damage. slayer also brings an absurdly powerful utility for large and smallscale in shatter limbs and has a fantastic m3 for smallscale which functions as an execute to secure kills

You have 0 Chance to outperform a WL on ttk. You join a fight - no mechanic up, doing considerably less damage. A WL will kill a squishy in 2 GCDs. A slayer could NEVER do that at any point. Once your class mechanic is up to be relevant, you are dying twice as fast as a WL. Even for small scale - if you don't have a bw in the enemy team, just train the slayer.

You will not out dps a WL and you will not kill anything faster and you will be more dead. It is mathematically impossible what you say. It doesn't matter how well you do on slayer - you would do better on a WL.

[gersy]

naturally you will not outperform WL in raw damage, but you should outperform them most of the time in kill damage. slayer also brings an absurdly powerful utility for large and smallscale in shatter limbs and has a fantastic m3 for smallscale which functions as an execute to secure kills

You have 0 Chance to outperform a WL on ttk. You join a fight - no mechanic up, doing considerably less damage. A WL will kill a squishy in 2 GCDs. A slayer could NEVER do that at any point. Once your class mechanic is up to be relevant, you are dying twice as fast as a WL. Even for small scale - if you don't have a bw in the enemy team, just train the slayer.

You will not out dps a WL and you will not kill anything faster and you will be more dead. It is mathematically impossible what you say. It doesn't matter how well you do on slayer - you would do better on a WL.

never mentioned TTK, i said kill damage. as in damage contributing to kills. slayer can easily lead in this stat, which is what i was trying to convey. overall damage, WL will win due to its ability to spam its channel more often resulting in more fluff damage. yes you need to get mechanic up to deal good damage, it almost always been that way. WL has the ease of accessibility of instant damage so it will do more upfront before a slayer is red, i never disputed that. WL will not kill a competent "squishy" in 2 gcds, bis healers have high armor/redarpen and will get a guard swap if their tanks are halfway competent. dying faster is a thing of course, that's the mechanic. you take more damage, you deal more.

a proper setup with 2-4 IDs in to a ret channel in red will do more aoe damage than WL's channel typically. this is why we see 12man city aoe comps utilizing 2-3 slayers often. naturally ret has a longer cd and is interruptible so the recovery time is harsher than WL's channel which has less cooldown, that is about playing around your situation and not allowing yourself to be interrupted as well as getting the enemy's flank to avoid being parried/blocked.

slayer is typically better at grinding things down in coordinated/organized environments where fights last longer than 15 seconds such as in organized city, gvg, premade vs premade scenarios, etc. WL is better at dealing upfront aoe damage because it has no ramp up, you leap in and go wild. this makes it an excellent pug farmer, and is one of the main reasons for its prevalence and potency. because farming pugs is what this game has devolved in to, and WL is amazing for that. WL however typically will not outperform a well played slayer stack in organized small to midscale context.

what you say seems to mostly be formulated from pug gameplay or average orvr gameplay experience of pug vs pug or weak "org" wb vs other weak "org" wbs. again, i won't dispute that WL is the king of those situations. if you refer back to my post, which you clearly didn't read in its entirety, i outline the many reasons why slayer is extremely potent in organized, grindy fights and competitive situations as a whole.

just because you don't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't happening. there are plenty of good groups utilizing slayer to its maximum capability and abusing how powerful the class can be when coordinated properly using shatter, m4, on demand IHD for quick ST swaps, spreading IDs, etc. there are just infinitely more noobs who rerolled to lion for the ease of accessibility it provides - high impact for comparatively low effort.

[Scragmuncher]

I have been playing both BIS SL and WL a lot recently.
They are both very strong classes. Wl has fantastic burst and dps overall, but other than that it brings little to the table for a WB. The mobility makes it easy to play and the interrupt is very valuable, but that's about it. Clearly a very strong class, and one that fits well into the current game balance.
SL has been through a series of nerfs, but can absolutely wreck if played correctly. You also have access to so many more usefull abilities than you do on WL. Currently I've been playing around with the M4 KD and it's just so damn satisfying XD.

Slayer is good. They just need to be played correctly.

[georgehabadasher]

And it all happened because they refused to implement the simple solution and revert a change. Before the ability rework last year, procs had an icd. The obvious solution would be to re-add the icd. RoR devs implemented a ton of changes (proc/damage modifier interactions, channel tic rates, sorc/bw mechanic nerf, and who knows how many others I’m forgetting).

Well blurring shock had no ICD (on keep lords at least) and now it does. So it's not like they nuked them completely.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I was referring to the BW/Sorc and WP/DoK proc abilities which are what really drove the proc meta. The ICD on those procs was removed in the ability rework, which led to classes like Slayer, Choppa and WL overperforming because they could take the best advantage of those procs with their bonus damage. Most of these classes have received nerfs since then, as have procs in general. The devs could have simply re-added the ICD to BW/Sorc/WP/DoK procs, but honestly, I'm not even sure they realized that it had been changed.

[Speedyluck]

SL is garbage tier not worth the time and effort, amazes me ppl keep denying this FACT.

[Ruin]

Lets get back to the subject of this topic pls, witch is: Should Reckless Gamble be changed, either to have a Main stat DMG component or to allow Scailing with Enrage mechanic and other %dmg increases?

[Scragmuncher]

A slight buff to RG would be fine, but imo not really needed.
The only change I really want to see on SL is a defensive buff. The hit to parry has really hurt and makes SL pretty squishy, especially for leading WB's.

[Scragmuncher]

SL is garbage tier not worth the time and effort, amazes me ppl keep denying this FACT.

SL absolutely smashing the dmg vs a bunch of other BIS dps.