WE - Why is there no Burn Armor equivalent?

[gersy]

because the classes are not 1:1 and homogenization is what kills pvp mmos (see what happened to WoW). not sure if this is a 1v1 complaint thread like typical, if so then i will just reiterate that the game is not, and never will be, balanced around 1v1ing/dueling/solo roaming. commentary i provide below will be assuming that the user of either class is playing in an organized, team play oriented environment using voice comms; such as premade SCs, ranked, city siege or 6man roaming.

WE has pierce armor which gives WS, akin to an armor debuff in a way, and also hits extremely hard when built around. tbh it's better than burn armor, since burn armor is not very useful due to WH typically playing in comps with WL who already provides a massive armor debuff and they don't stack with one another. WE also has the benefit of being able to skip 4tri in their bis mixes because of pierce armor, allowing them to build for more damage or survivability as a result (5sov/3tri/2hv or 5sov/3tri/1ons for example to reach 100% armor pen with elixir as is commonly seen nowadays amongst strong 6man playing WEs).

there are many advantages that each have which the other does not - for example WE has insanely strong tactics that WH misses entirely such as frenzied mayhem, taste of blood, masterful treachery. while WH has different tactics, abilities, and benefits such as guaranteed bullet proc, burn armor, repel blasphemy, much better morale 4 abilities, etc. all mirrors look like this typically, and while some mirrors may have slight advantages here or there it is relatively balanced overall in most cases.

at the end of the day, in an organized teamplay environment of SC/ranked/org city/6man roaming (the places where these 2 classes shine the most), both classes are relatively evenly balanced. although WE probably has a very slight edge in the current meta due to their stronger build opportunities but imo both are S tier if played properly, in a proper comp, in the right content and with competent allies.

[Morpheus]

I don't think the classes should mirror each other; it's much more exciting when they differ slightly. The witch hunter has more than 100% parry and armor debuff, but that's okay because the witch has other strengths. I enjoy both classes as they are and don't think they need to be changed or adjusted any further.

[darhoob]

Good afternoon, Shadow Leap is very useful! Especially against Kiters. Author study the classroom and learn how to play it. Good luck to everyone.

[darhoob]

A good example of the usefulness of Shadow leap.

https://www.twitch.tv/rtixoxod/clip/Spo ... fLnzJPMCnX

[Krima]

Burn Armor and Shadow Leap were some of the most bizarre changes ever made to both classes. It was Torqmadra-level absurdity. Shadow Leap is ultra garbage by the way.
One of the reasons Repel Blasphemy had such high base damage was because Witch Elves already had Pierce Armor, while Witch Hunters had no real way to increase armor penetration or reduce armor besides SOD. So it made sense for Repel Blasphemy to have strong base damage.

However, since there seems to be no actual thought process in RoR, Blessed Blade + Burn Armor ended up making Repel Blasphemy hit ridiculously hard, and for quite some time, I was using Repel Blasphemy to actualy finish of my target on a glass canon build.

100% agree that the WH/WE openeres should be mirrored.

[Senjun]

Not saying I want to have WEs mirror WHs 1:1, but can anyone give me an actual reason why WE's Vehement Blades does what it currently does when WHs have an AOE armor debuff in Burn Armor?

Would anyone actually prefer to inflict ~220 corp damage to an opposing player on ability activation instead of debuffing their armor? I understand that if you use this on a WL using whirling axe for example that they will take a lot of damage from it, but I legit never see people do this or go out of their way to try to do this.

Enfeebling strike will deal more damage 80% of the time if your goal is to do damage

I don't see the sense in specifically changing this ability for WHs only when it was actually mirrored between classes on live.

WEs have almost no utility and/or aoe, giving an aoe armor debuff to us as well would be pretty healthy imo and you may even see fewer witchbrew users.

Another question: why are deff/regen WE´s stronger than tanks, etc.? WH´s burn armor is completely useless in that case, LOL.

But its ok, all regen/deff Builds for Noob player xD

[Senjun]

I pray they do normal 2 specs for both, 1 burst and second for prolonged boxing that can do something with armored classes, as prob original design was planing.

Path of Judgment is good burst build.

Path of confession good for longer fight vs 2h hand tank or deff builds, but Devs nerf this build before 1 or 2 years

[Farrul]

100% agree that the WH/WE openeres should be mirrored.

Keep in mind burn armor has been nerfed, how useful is the 600ish ? The 1k burn armor was good no doubt.

Another question: why are deff/regen WE´s stronger than tanks, etc.? WH´s burn armor is completely useless in that case, LOL.

But its ok, all regen/deff Builds for Noob player xD

Why? Because it is a build that should never have existed if proper balance was taken care of a long time ago ( hopefully for the dps patches, the def build needs to be abolished and reworked into something which makes sense for a dps stealth class).

Generally i think WH is a little stronger than WE if you exclude the '' obnoxious'' Witchbrew def build. Hence WH is good to model after, although stuff does not need to be 100% mirrored imho, make a new version.

[sanpatol]

I would never trade Shadow Leap for Burn armor. It works well with OYK, it is a huge mobility tool with elixir of shadow, it helps catching backline or kiters during fights, its a good opener to snipe someone in zerg, it helps if your late or to save a mate. it does so much than burn armor don't, and as gersy said we have pierce armor anyway (+bleeding edge if u play sov+2)
Ok it doesnt link properly if u leap on someone running away with mount but then who cares.
I guess people complaining about burn armor vs shadow leap are mostly def/regen players. And for 1v1 gank u have feinted positioning. So not really sure why people are so crazy about burn armor.