BW: Current state

[lumpi33]

So many options, its really hard for me to find common ground when many who play the class actively put it AT or NEAR the top of the DPS Tier list.

What?!? Ok you are from Jempire, you play against these bad eastern time destros... Come to EU prime and the melees will take you apart with you only scratching them...

Looking through your kills it is mostly an assist of like 7-10 people killing targets. Your damage is not that great as you think it is. BWs don't even have a nice damage moral. It is far from top DPS.

[Blkfiredrag]

So many options, its really hard for me to find common ground when many who play the class actively put it AT or NEAR the top of the DPS Tier list.

What?!? Ok you are from Jempire, you play against these bad eastern time destros... Come to EU prime and the melees will take you apart with you only scratching them...

I play EU on the weekends (LOTD/oRVR) and I still top the killboard/skirmishes. There are many great EU BW's who do the same Fireouse, Lightitup, Bombling ect

[lumpi33]

So many options, its really hard for me to find common ground when many who play the class actively put it AT or NEAR the top of the DPS Tier list.

What?!? Ok you are from Jempire, you play against these bad eastern time destros... Come to EU prime and the melees will take you apart with you only scratching them...

I play EU on the weekends (LOTD/oRVR) and I still top the killboard/skirmishes. There are many great EU BW's who do the same Fireouse, Lightitup, Bombling ect

Yeah, BW is so great that Bombling switched to mSH...

[wonshot]

Yeah, BW is so great that Bombling switched to mSH...

I dont wanna derail the topic, so ill commeny on this in my own mixed up view:

if I were to give classes a score or one of those new character creation sympols showing how each career performs i would give BW compared to MSH the following

Aoe BW build:
Mobility 2/10
Sustain: 0/10
Mitigation: 1/10 (maybe two due to the armor shield now stacking with pot)
Damage: 10/10
Crowdcontrol: 3/10 (silence, root, bacrkdraft)
Buffs/debuffs: 6/10 FoR group buffs


Aoe MSH:
Mobility: 9/10 (pounce, selfpunt, speedup
Sustain: 3/10 lifesteal channel
Mitigation: 8/10 Free armor, toughness, wounds from Squigarmor
Damage: 9/10 when paired with WitchKing and M4 drop
Crowdcontrol: 7/10 biggest aoe punt length in the game. No immunity chain punts Outtamyway, M2 Goo, ranged st snare on the move
Buffs/debuffs: 7/10 cooldown increaser, pierce defence


As I wrote in my previous post, BW's only remaining fun for me comes from Flashfire the rest of the class feels somewhat outdated. Having to spam Flamebreath to have a filler aoe ability on the move is half because of Explosive Force triggering, and you can then do a Scorched Earth to dump the rage and fish for FoR procs. But both of these skills only procing either Explosive or FoR makes it feel like a bandaid roation as you lack better alternatives, still way better than sorc doing two Icespikes middletree!

BW can absolutely pump. To me, it just feels like a relic of the past when the rest of the game has become more mobile and scripted in back and forth morale tank golfing. But if you are just punching down and gear checking then sure BW can feel very very powerful. Against EU premades constantly fishing you out with Mara pulls, having to move around stacks of Hold the Line, having your tank punted away while you die in a knockdown. BW/Sorc are just not really meta for how the game is being played in evenly matched fights. But the game has become more casual in 2026 so you can get away with alot more these days.
If flashfire is taken away, I guess aoe bw would lose its last bit of skill expression the way I see it.

[lumpi33]

Yeah, agree Bombling. It feels like a relic of the past. A heavy nerfed one.

Aoe BW build:
Mobility 2/10
Sustain: 0/10
Mitigation: 1/10 (maybe two due to the armor shield now stacking with pot)
Damage: 10/10
Crowdcontrol: 3/10 (silence, root, bacrkdraft)
Buffs/debuffs: 6/10 FoR group buffs

Id would be kind of fine with it when the Damage were really a 10/10 but Id say it is max 6-7/10. You have slow ramp up, Rain of Fire is more of a gimmick and can't be stacked, Fiery Blast cast is super slow, Flashfire procs are unreliable, Wild Fire and Detonate are a joke, Flame Breath is okish but it is a dot (sorc Infernal Wave is instant damage with more range), rest requires you to go into melee range without any defense. Id say that melee aoe is still much more potent and they have more defense, mobility and also the better morals. They also don't get auto silenced from chosens. Both our damage morals are 25ft radius without any range, so melee range. Then you look at WE: m2 with 1200 to all in front of you 65ft !! away. Who is the rdps here? The WE? Come on...

[Sever1n]

Imagine how to play on sork without flash =/

[Sinisterror]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPibpS8Fpks&t=65s

Upper video is perfect example How effective BW used to be and how the PvP used to feel/look

[Blkfiredrag]

So many options, its really hard for me to find common ground when many who play the class actively put it AT or NEAR the top of the DPS Tier list.

Looking through your kills it is mostly an assist of like 7-10 people killing targets. Your damage is not that great as you think it is. BWs don't even have a nice damage moral. It is far from top DPS.

LOL — I just noticed this edit.

How did we go from:

“I’m playing a BW and it feels lackluster. What are your thoughts?”

Reply:

“Yeah, sure. I think it’s very good for these reasons.”

To:

“NA trash, and you’re wrong.”

Also, it’s wild to me that you can say, IN THE SAME BREATH, “come to EU” and “your kills have 6–7 assists.”

You’re complaining about poor morales? BW has M2 Ruin and Destruction, which is almost instant damage, unlike something like White Lion, for example. BW also has a great M4, again unlike White Lion.

You’re also complaining about Detonate, Spreading Flames, Flame Breath, and — (LOL) Rain of Fire.

- Detonate is a great way to proc Flashfire, or it can be used as a mid-tier execute if Nova is on cooldown.
- Spreading Flames should almost never be picked up.
- Flame Breath is extremely strong. It’s a cheap 20 Combustion builder and a great way to proc EF.
- Rain of Fire is a noob trap, so I’m no longer surprised that you’re using it for more than just a way to proc FF.

You also mentioned that BW doesn’t have a “finisher,” so apparently we’re not picking up Nova either. That’s another extremely strong ability that deals huge damage and is a surefire way to build 40 Combustion right off the rip when stacking to 100 at the start of engagements.

Take it from someone who actually performs well on BW: delete yours, remake it, and as you level and learn the class, then read each tooltip carefully as you obtain new abilities, these are things you read to understand the abilities the game provides for you.

As for now, I know not to take you seriously, and others probably shouldn’t either.

[nocturnalguest]

I believe BW performance estimations greatly depends on context and especially on game environments. In general id like to note that some may miss out one thing about AoE BW, you cant think of it as RDPS gameplay wise, its played as melee bomber and it works then you have proper support from your warband. If someone is spreading the flames and RoFing from distance you are doing it wrong.

I could definitely agree on takes like "AoE BW sucks" in case we consider none organised environment and pugging. Then yeah, no critical dmg mass, no focused dmg into 1 spot and thus it feels that BW has no impact. Plus you have no proper support both from tanks and healers, if you even have them in your group thus it feels you are paper.

Situation is clearly completely different if we talk about organised gameplay. BW is shining bright, bringing insane dmg boosts for party thru procs and totally on par with WL dmg wise. It has much better tools than sorc to sustain and definitely at great spot. It has great bombing and utility morales too

[lumpi33]

LOL — I just noticed this edit.
How did we go from:
“I’m playing a BW and it feels lackluster. What are your thoughts?”
Reply:
“Yeah, sure. I think it’s very good for these reasons.”
To:
“NA trash, and you’re wrong.”
Also, it’s wild to me that you can say, IN THE SAME BREATH, “come to EU” and “your kills have 6–7 assists.”

I was just stating that NA time is a bit of different reality. I play it as well from time to time and the destros there are just not comparable to the ones of EU prime. Not only that but EU prime destro has usually 10-30% more players which makes it even harder. And then there are guild groups like TUP that completely dominate and you can basically log off when they show up because you wont kill them. No matter if they are destro or order but usually they play destro. Same with Formosa and a few other guilds.

Jempire usually dominates in NA on order. When I see your kills and lots of assists I basically know that you just walked over them. Your damage as BW didn't really matter. You could have done nothing and they would have killed them. In that case a class can feel stronger than it actually is.

That was my point there.

You’re complaining about poor morales? BW has M2 Ruin and Destruction, which is almost instant damage, unlike something like White Lion, for example. BW also has a great M4, again unlike White Lion.

BW m2: 1200 damage, 25ft radius, no range
WL m2: 1200 damage, 65ft range, IN A LINE in front of you
WH m2: 1200 damage, 65ft range, IN A LINE in front of you
Mara m2: 1200 damage, 40ft range, ALL in front of you
WE m2: 1200 damage, 65ft range, ALL in front of you <-- yeah, ALL in front and 65ft range... Why isn't it 40ft?

Id take any of the melee morals over the BW one. Especially the WE one is crazy good with 65ft range, on a mdps class. They have more range than the BW who actually is a rdps. So the WE with lots of mobility like pounce and instant disappear and parry can do damage in a large arc of 65ft while the squishy BW without mobility, without instant disappear, without much parry has 25ft radius and has to go into melee range. Not hard to tell which one is better.

Targets are usually in front of me. I don't need the 25ft behind me, Id rather have more range in front of me like they have. Forcing a squishy rdps like BW to go into melee range for their m2 or m4 is madness. The melees are made for the front line, BWs aren't.

Id even take the SH/SW m2 over the BW one. It does less damage but adds a strong snare and has 65ft range. BWs have ZERO fire and forget snares. Only withering heat with a weak snare but you have to stand still.

That was my point about weak BW morals.

You’re also complaining about Detonate, Spreading Flames, Flame Breath, and — (LOL) Rain of Fire.

- Detonate is a great way to proc Flashfire, or it can be used as a mid-tier execute if Nova is on cooldown.
- Spreading Flames should almost never be picked up.
- Flame Breath is extremely strong. It’s a cheap 20 Combustion builder and a great way to proc EF.
- Rain of Fire is a noob trap, so I’m no longer surprised that you’re using it for more than just a way to proc FF.

You also mentioned that BW doesn’t have a “finisher,” so apparently we’re not picking up Nova either. That’s another extremely strong ability that deals huge damage and is a surefire way to build 40 Combustion right off the rip when stacking to 100 at the start of engagements.

Take it from someone who actually performs well on BW: delete yours, remake it, and as you level and learn the class, then read each tooltip carefully as you obtain new abilities, these are things you read to understand the abilities the game provides for you.

As for now, I know not to take you seriously, and others probably shouldn’t either.

@Detonate: That's like telling melees that they first have to miss before having a chance to do actual damage - which can be resisted again. Not only that, they have to give up a tactic for it as well...
@Spreading Flames: yeah, garbage
@Flame Breath: extremely strong is a bit of an exaggeration. It is okish. You have to get very close for it.
@Rain of Fire: yeah, garbage and you can't stack that garbage.

So yeah, I am complaining about these skills. They are not good. Weak damage and adding nothing, no buff, no debuff, nothing but a chance of a backlash.

Nova is not a "finisher". It would be when it would say: deals xxx damage and yyy when target is below zzz health. And it does elemental damage. You can't debuff it in the single target build. Sorcs have lots of spirit damage, even in the left tree, so they can debuff with their dot and tactic. That's one of the reason sorcs are stronger in the single target builds.

Good for you that you like your BW, but my opinion is more in the line with Bomblings comments who pretty much hits the nail on the head when comparing it to the mSH.