Def WE: Fight Denied

[Lescargo]

Bonjour,


I think overpowered def/regen WEs builds are forcing a lot of solo players to run defensive-regen builds too.

That’s certainly the case for me; Months ago I used to make an effort to limit my regen and lower my defenses so I could play more offensive, engaging and fun builds.

But given how much these WE builds are exploited—and the toxic behavior of some WE players—you just don't want to feed them

As a result, solo play becomes more boring: defensive WE builds force Order solo players to play the meta, which means other Destro classes have to fight Order soloists who are impossible to beat 1v1 (like me /flex), then they are going for def/regen builds too..
And everyone ends up bored.

Obviously, there’s no magic bullet for this. Removing regen from the game entirely is one option, but it might not solve the underlying issue: defensive WEs would likely still be far too strong, I believe that.

I also realize the devs have a heavy workload. Some might agree that adjustments are needed, while others might not or just don't give a fck. Either way, looking at the roadmap, any changes would likely take a long time to implement.


PS: "skill issue," "another thread about solo, who cares"

[gisborne]

Good, I hope all you soloers run regen builds so that you can't kill my healer when I'm trying to meet up with my warband. Stop running heal debuffs as well while you're at it since it's useless against regen.

If you're going to play for solo, and regen works best, what's the problem? A solo-specialized build should beat a generalist or group oriented build in solo combat.

[Lescargo]

I hope all you soloers run regen builds so that you can't kill my healer when I'm trying to meet up with my warband

This is the main reason why group players have such contempt for solo play "these boring soloers killed me again sigh.."

They also forget that solo players regularly provide them with free RPs

[anstalt]

Its just an endless game of rock-paper-scissors. At some point, you have to accept that your choice is gonna get beaten by someone. Doesn't matter really matter what you choose, thats always gonna be true.

For example, when I run my WE in defensive build (maxed parry, reasonable regen) im freaking awesome against melee DPS! And against most tanks! My parry means I can avoid half their attacks, and my regen helps with what does get through. But I give up sooooo much of my damage to achieve that, that I can rarely kill healers. And magic damage obviously avoids all my defences, so if magic dps gets the drop of me, they can burn through my regen so easily.


So, by choosing def/regen, I've chosen to be better than a bunch of people, and worse than a different bunch of people.


Likewise, if I choose full glass cannon WE, suddenly I'm great against healers! and ranged DPS! I can kill them real quick. But if anyone survives my burst.....say a tank, or a melee dps with some defences, then im toast.



My final point: you should try actually playing WEs for yourself. Considering all the noise about how overpowered they are, you might be surprised with just how often you die. Sure, when things go well they can go very well. But you still die, a lot, to a whole variety of players.

[Lescargo]

Its just an endless game of rock-paper-scissors. At some point, you have to accept that your choice is gonna get beaten by someone. Doesn't matter really matter what you choose, thats always gonna be true.

For example, when I run my WE in defensive build (maxed parry, reasonable regen) im freaking awesome against melee DPS! And against most tanks! My parry means I can avoid half their attacks, and my regen helps with what does get through. But I give up sooooo much of my damage to achieve that, that I can rarely kill healers. And magic damage obviously avoids all my defences, so if magic dps gets the drop of me, they can burn through my regen so easily.


So, by choosing def/regen, I've chosen to be better than a bunch of people, and worse than a different bunch of people.


Likewise, if I choose full glass cannon WE, suddenly I'm great against healers! and ranged DPS! I can kill them real quick. But if anyone survives my burst.....say a tank, or a melee dps with some defences, then im toast.



My final point: you should try actually playing WEs for yourself. Considering all the noise about how overpowered they are, you might be surprised with just how often you die. Sure, when things go well they can go very well. But you still die, a lot, to a whole variety of players.

That is precisely the problem: as a WE, you can build to kill whatever you want, whereas other classes lack that freedom—which skews the rock-paper-scissors dynamic.
As a tank, no matter what build I try, I’ll never kill a dedicated healer with comparable gear and skill levels. That’s fine; I accept that.

But how do you explain a bis skilled Witch Elf running a defensive regen build managing to put more DPS pressure on me than a group of three players—including full dps Choppas, 2H Black Orcs, Marauders, and so on? And yet, I play with high Toughness, decent regen, and solid block rate ? I know how to strafe, position myself correctly, i know stuff you know.

I’ve dueled tons of WEs and compared the situation before and after the DPS patch. I don’t mean to be dismissive—I’ve looked at your killboard and armory; you’re running Grimshimmer (RR79, not BiS) and lack the optimal "Solater/Illusionist" setup, and maybe as well as the best talent and renown variations.

I don't think you realize just how broken the WE can be in 1v1s. In fact, I’ve noticed that some of the WEs defending regen builds here on the forum don't necessarily run the most "broken" setups themselves. Those who actually play those meta builds and know how to push buttons seem, curiously enough, staying rather quiet.

[abezverkhiy]

WE just said it is a matter of build and she loses damage vs healers/rdps while defence specced because she abandons certain damage perks and non-WE says no you don't... FFS... The grass is always greener...

[Lescargo]

WE just said it is a matter of build and she loses damage vs healers/rdps while defence specced because she abandons certain damage perks and non-WE says no you don't... FFS... The grass is always greener...

Vaporiser Top 1 solo RP got killed many times in fair 1v1 by def/regen builded WEs with %parry +armor in gear set

[coldhunter]

Vaporiser Top 1 solo RP got killed many times in fair 1v1 by def/regen builded WEs with %parry +armor in gear set

And now check how many time he kill those WEs. Ofc we talking about Vapo, who will stagger you and run in to pve side, if he get any problems, but still.

If you think that def-we so immortal, then explain me one thing: how all those def-wes still diying in 1x1 to snb's, 2h-tanks, dps-WP, def-wls, dps-rps and whs? Since you brought up Solater - go check her kb for solo death and explain how is it possible to lose so many fight in a row to same guys. I mean its diffinetely not someone got lucky and kill her, when there is a straight of loses from the same guy, right? Now, how its possible, if def-we so OP and no one can counter them?

[Lescargo]

Vaporiser Top 1 solo RP got killed many times in fair 1v1 by def/regen builded WEs with %parry +armor in gear set

And now check how many time he kill those WEs. Ofc we talking about Vapo, who will stagger you and run in to pve side, if he get any problems, but still.

If you think that def-we so immortal, then explain me one thing: how all those def-wes still diying in 1x1 to snb's, 2h-tanks, dps-WP, def-wls, dps-rps and whs? Since you brought up Solater - go check her kb for solo death and explain how is it possible to lose so many fight in a row to same guys. I mean its diffinetely not someone got lucky and kill her, when there is a straight of loses from the same guy, right? Now, how its possible, if def-we so OP and no one can counter them?

You are twisting my words; I never said that def Witch Elves were immortal, nor did I say that no one could counter them. It’s simply that they are overpowered with the right build and skillplay compared to other classes—which might be just as powerful but lack the full toolkit a Witch Elf possesses, specifically stealth, crowd control, mobility, and so on.

In fact, if you look back at what I’ve said in other threads, my point is this: Witch Elves are a bit too strong given their kit. A stealth class shouldn't enjoy such advantages in survivability and mobility while also maintaining very solid DPS; adjustments are needed. That’s all I’m saying.

[vipevox]

Adjustments were made in the latest patch. The team is now working on other game classes. If they revisit the issues with MDPS, it certainly won't be anytime soon. What is the point of all these endless posts whining about the WE?