Give WP/DoK a gap closer.

[coldhunter]

I think problem can be solved if Fist of Khaine/Judgement will have 50% chance to apply covenant/prayer effect and WP will have same -20% movement speed debuff on his dmg prayer, just as DOK has rn. This will allow them to slow target from distance with few casts and in the same time, 20% its not much, so RPDS still can kite them.

[M0rw47h]

I think problem can be solved if Fist of Khaine/Judgement will have 50% chance to apply covenant/prayer effect and WP will have same -20% movement speed debuff on his dmg prayer, just as DOK has rn. This will allow them to slow target from distance with few casts and in the same time, 20% its not much, so RPDS still can kite them.

That would matter for 1v1 stuff, but wouldn't adress real issue with how melee train groups are played.

You often engage, then disengage to bait and turn when they disengage themselves to pick up leftovers. You don't have as much mobility as rest of mDPS and trying to cover that with flee causes lots of issues alone: 1) drops morales, 2) has longer CD than charge, 3) can't charge into a flee if needed, 4) requires AP pot for any follow up, 5) offensive flee means no defensive flee for 40s...

After getting CCed (punted/staggered) return into mobile combat without a charge can be real deal breaker for party composition.

[rychu097]

lack of gap closer is painful but it could be too stronk combined with heals (but iam not balance spec)

but

i cant understand why dok have covenant with slow potential and wp doesnt? this is ridicolous and should be fixed.

ps.
2h Greathammer should have knockdown ability - lore wise

[Sinisterror]

Wp/Dok is the only class that has actually damaging "throw axe" ability, easily crits for 500-600. Live also had snare snare proc for every class in some wpn. Odjira 60% Speed proc talisman existed, Wp could cleanse few shaman dots in AoR im pretty sure if i remember right. Wp also had Guilty Soul that healed 150% of dmg done so with judgement, Gs, Smite, you actually had possibilty of killing the ranged class. And Dok Obviously had the most OP aoe heal debuff in the game + Snare covenant. Wp/Dok also gets cleanse and ofc small heals, these are not much but cleanse is always good + long range detaunt + aoe melee detaunt.

RoR should add 25% Chance to snare target for 3s on judgement to 2H Wp. That would give a much better chance. Btw Wp Absorb Prayer is super op : D Espesially because its passive on being hit. You took away my Archmage/Shaman Tactic Green an cleanin, single target double absorb/hot but requires to use cleanse twice on target.

If that was too much absorb what is this Wp prayer then?

[lemao]

Ask you mates to snare targets.

[kleinbuchstabe]

If i remember right, once there was a charge for dps dok. I think it was after the class remake when shields were implemented.
It was the 3rd mastery ability on the dual wield path. And it was a real game changer for this class. Later they downgraded it to this "juggernaut" ability and made it a basic skill.

Would be a good change to get it back, and would make it more playable again.
After all the nerfs the dual wield path sustained healwise, it wouldnt be too much to bring that back again.

[Cullenn]

If i remember right, once there was a charge for dps dok. I think it was after the class remake when shields were implemented.
It was the 3rd mastery ability on the dual wield path. And it was a real game changer for this class. Later they downgraded it to this "juggernaut" ability and made it a basic skill.

Would be a good change to get it back, and would make it more playable again.
After all the nerfs the dual wield path sustained healwise, it wouldnt be too much to bring that back again.

That's what i hope too, adding a speed buff to unstoppable wrath for WP and make both us melee dps healers a chance to catch up, only avalible for dual wielding/2h.

[Sinisterror]

If i remember right, once there was a charge for dps dok. I think it was after the class remake when shields were implemented.
It was the 3rd mastery ability on the dual wield path. And it was a real game changer for this class. Later they downgraded it to this "juggernaut" ability and made it a basic skill.

Would be a good change to get it back, and would make it more playable again.
After all the nerfs the dual wield path sustained healwise, it wouldnt be too much to bring that back again.

That's what i hope too, adding a speed buff to unstoppable wrath for WP and make both us melee dps healers a chance to catch up, only avalible for dual wielding/2h.

Problem then becomes why does Wp/Dok get 10s Snare/Root/Kd/Stun immunity WITH 10s Charge? This is obviously too powerful, Charge on demand as an ability has always been Mdps(except welf/wh and dps dok/wp) Trait in this game. Its a whole different thing when we talk about 20-30% Speed procs vs 7s 50% charge - Wl/Mara used to also get 75% Speed charge with Old Warlord set. Things start breaking down around 80% increased movement speed.

Also SH used to get Run Away ability, Which was unique 10s 30% speed buff that didnt break on ability use. This is consistent with Run Away! Tactic on shammy/Sqherder that doesnt break on ability use(RIP with 10s Icd this tactics point disappears) But back then Destro didnt get Ranged KD but gets only aoe melee KD with Marauder. Pounce was only for Wl and Sm as morale ability. Destro had only Melee Dps aoe heal debuff with with Dok.
Order Side Rp gets 50% Aoe heal debuff. This all is consistent and makes sense. Before Stagger existed Dok and Bw got 5s aoe KD morale 2 : D If you didnt notice this is another thing that is shared by both realms, but one side has it on Melee dps and other one Ranged dps.

This is a bit offtopic, but was Run Away! ability by SH that had insane hidden benefits or was it some Gas Squig basic ability that had 30-50% Aoe Dmg debuff with like endless range and 100% uptime : D

[Kyouaku]

Oh hey Cullenn, I gave up my my DoK and just play WL or WE now and it's sooooooooooooooooooooooo much nicer. They have done melee DoK super dirty. Imagine playing WP but you are stuck doing phys damage on everything but have no skills/tactics for any armor pen ha. It just does no damage to some enemies. With the proc nerf on the snare covenant, it really is garbage now and I cant tell the difference when its up or not unless im chasing someone across half the map ha.

Instead of that ranged undefendabale spirirt damage nuke you got, DoK has "Drowning in blood" Which gives 25% more crit damage for a small period of time, on a class that has no sov for crit bonuses, while other melee DPS can get 50% all the time and have armor pen skills/tactics ha. It's like a cruel joke.

This is the thread I made about how I think DPS DoK can be changed with a very minimal and balanced way: viewtopic.php?f=73&t=60989

I really hope the devs take it into consideration.

Why play a DoK in SCs when a WE can bypass armor, 50% crit damage all the time, has better tactics and gearing, or play a mura which is really just like DoK+, where you get sooooo much awesome stuff, and better damage, for trading out that broken heal channel lol. Smart pulls win fights, having a charge for kiety people is a must. Better tactics, better damage.

[Cullenn]

If i remember right, once there was a charge for dps dok. I think it was after the class remake when shields were implemented.
It was the 3rd mastery ability on the dual wield path. And it was a real game changer for this class. Later they downgraded it to this "juggernaut" ability and made it a basic skill.

Would be a good change to get it back, and would make it more playable again.
After all the nerfs the dual wield path sustained healwise, it wouldnt be too much to bring that back again.

That's what i hope too, adding a speed buff to unstoppable wrath for WP and make both us melee dps healers a chance to catch up, only avalible for dual wielding/2h.

Problem then becomes why does Wp/Dok get 10s Snare/Root/Kd/Stun immunity WITH 10s Charge? This is obviously too powerful, Charge on demand as an ability has always been Mdps(except welf/wh and dps dok/wp) Trait in this game. Its a whole different thing when we talk about 20-30% Speed procs vs 7s 50% charge - Wl/Mara used to also get 75% Speed charge with Old Warlord set. Things start breaking down around 80% increased movement speed.

Also SH used to get Run Away ability, Which was unique 10s 30% speed buff that didnt break on ability use. This is consistent with Run Away! Tactic on shammy/Sqherder that doesnt break on ability use(RIP with 10s Icd this tactics point disappears) But back then Destro didnt get Ranged KD but gets only aoe melee KD with Marauder. Pounce was only for Wl and Sm as morale ability. Destro had only Melee Dps aoe heal debuff with with Dok.
Order Side Rp gets 50% Aoe heal debuff. This all is consistent and makes sense. Before Stagger existed Dok and Bw got 5s aoe KD morale 2 : D If you didnt notice this is another thing that is shared by both realms, but one side has it on Melee dps and other one Ranged dps.

This is a bit offtopic, but was Run Away! ability by SH that had insane hidden benefits or was it some Gas Squig basic ability that had 30-50% Aoe Dmg debuff with like endless range and 100% uptime : D

I mean, in my vision could be fair since WP/DoK aren't ranged, got no gap closer, have no knockdown and a good punt, may i ask what would you see as viable? i already suggested the WP damage prayer to also have slow/speed buff in some way, but ppl don't like it, so other than a charge i have no idea what should be added as a gap closer, maybe if they buff rdps in RDPS patch this change on WP becomes fair to add?