Game balance

[gisborne]

Order has more kills bc they are more organized. Destro classes are demonstrably stronger, so this shows how little difference fine tuning class balance makes to the overall success of a faction.

[arturziomas]

The thing that order is a lot more organized at is shilling for their realm on the forums, that's for sure.

[Kyouaku]

The thing that order is a lot more organized at is shilling for their realm on the forums, that's for sure.

Having played both, he is right, it's so easy to get groups going on order most of the time, on destro, it's like pulling teeth.

[ponko22]

Yes, please, nerf destro so that order can go from 10% more kills on average to 20%, or actually nerf it even harder, let's reach 30%

I'm not trying to call for a nerf; I'm just saying, doesn't it annoy you when people who have never even played that class make illogical claims about it?
For example, I've never played SM or BO, but if I were to talk about those classes arrogantly and demand adjustments, wouldn't you be annoyed with me? There are a lot of people like that, and it's a pointless argument, so I wish they'd stop.

[Shogun4138]

All you need is a WL. Still the best class in the game. They have all the tools of other classes and they can reset any fight.

With SL being nerfed, the only reason people are saying WL is good for Order's MDP is because it has everything.
If you claim it has everything, please explain it logically based on facts. Does it have AoE CC like Mara? Does it have buffs? Does it have punts like SH? Does it have multiple useful debuffs or defensive tactics like WE or Mara? Can it disappear? Can it reduce magic damage by 100%? Is a Lion that approaches on foot better than a pet that attacks from a distance in SH (which also has M1's 100% damage buff and 25% damage buff)?

It really pisses me off when people who have never played WL say things like this. My WE is a RR70 noob, but can I arrogantly yell "WE is OP!" just like you?

Pull
Pounce
Charge
Ranged knockdown
Armor debuff
Heal
Pet that can out run a horse
Pet that goes through walls
Pet that cant be kitted.
Instant pull out pet.

Its a great class that adds to everything. Solo, small man, warband. They can reset any fight. Its just obvious. I dont want them nerfed. My point was if they suck on 3 characters then maybe they should play regen WLs

[Brighteluden]

Just wait for the range rework, right now range ST can be quite devasting in smaller skirmishes/scenario's, mediocre in bigger fights, think SH and SW ST will be hit to some extent, but they'll get "buffs" in other areas.

I get it can be frustrating, but I get it, most times I'm just doing scenario's, since I don't feel like joining a warband and range can feel oppressive, although in smaller scale fights, WH/WE can also be a menace, white lions and whatnot as well, since their pet doesn't automatically get melted, once you have a bigger group going WL isn't to bad since their pet is constantly dead and there goes their damage, with that said WL's burst can be absurd sometimes and have AoE to boot, they are def the golden child in the grand scheme of things, as a marauder player kind of get demoralized to want to keep playing him when white lions are out there 100 to zeroing enemies in seconds, while i'm over here trying to debuff my enemy before I go burst them down, by the time i've done that the WL has already taken down two healers.

I play magus a fair bit and in most cases their ok, but if you get multiple of them in a scenario it can be a problem, really comes down to team compositions as well, gear differences, if you're playing against a premade etc, so many variables, people love putting blame on others, but again there's more things to consider when destro/order is winning scenarios etc, now for open RVR that's different.

[Shieldslam]

Its a great class that adds to everything. Solo, small man, warband. They can reset any fight. Its just obvious. I dont want them nerfed. My point was if they suck on 3 characters then maybe they should play regen WLs

Whenever I read one of your posts it's literally the most dogshit approach I've ever seen. It's beyond clear you got a personal vendetta against WL yet don't know how the class actually functions. Maybe don't engage with your counterclass and then complain about them being the best class in the game?

WL quite literally has the LEAST baseline utility in the ENTIRE game: 20% attackspeed slow, STR debuff from behind, pull tied to pet. The only thing WL ever had was strong frontloaded burst and mobility through leap but has to work with a buggy and weak pet to make it work - that's the entire identity of the class. WL doesn't have a single CC in Loner spec - not even one, none of the utility/debuffs Mara has, no groupbuff or similar, it literally has nothing but a single aoe interrupt you need to spec for (which Mara has baseline btw). Mara has higher dmg/dps especially in WB setting due to WL requiring pet for crit tactic while Mara doesn't and also has better crit%/stat tactics. It honestly feels like playing a template or work-in-progress class from an early access game because it's just so damn shallow and empty. The only saving grace is Pounce.
WL is the best mdps on Order, sure, but not because they are good but rather because they are the least shitty option and require negative brainpower to function at a decent level.
Additionally WL is horrible in small scale/grp too (lol) because any group with a basic understanding will immediately burst down the squishy pet and then won't have to worry about WL at all for 15s since they don't do meaningful ST dmg on their own (ranked matches were prime examples of this). Might be broken for solo due to absurd regen stacking with new selfheal + kiting (no experience, mine was always full crit) but then again solo balance is lost anyway and this thread was obviously aimed at largescale.

[Brighteluden]

Its a great class that adds to everything. Solo, small man, warband. They can reset any fight. Its just obvious. I dont want them nerfed. My point was if they suck on 3 characters then maybe they should play regen WLs

Whenever I read one of your posts it's literally the most dogshit approach I've ever seen. It's beyond clear you got a personal vendetta against WL yet don't know how the class actually functions. Maybe don't engage with your counterclass and then complain about them being the best class in the game?

WL quite literally has the LEAST baseline utility in the ENTIRE game: 20% attackspeed slow, STR debuff from behind, pull tied to pet. The only thing WL ever had was strong frontloaded burst and mobility through leap but has to work with a buggy and weak pet to make it work - that's the entire identity of the class. WL doesn't have a single CC in Loner spec - not even one, none of the utility/debuffs Mara has, no groupbuff or similar, it literally has nothing but a single aoe interrupt you need to spec for (which Mara has baseline btw). Mara has higher dmg/dps especially in WB setting due to WL requiring pet for crit tactic while Mara doesn't and also has better crit%/stat tactics. It honestly feels like playing a template or work-in-progress class from an early access game because it's just so damn shallow and empty. The only saving grace is Pounce.
WL is the best mdps on Order, sure, but not because they are good but rather because they are the least shitty option and require negative brainpower to function at a decent level.
Additionally WL is horrible in small scale/grp too (lol) because any group with a basic understanding will immediately burst down the squishy pet and then won't have to worry about WL at all for 15s since they don't do meaningful ST dmg on their own (ranked matches were prime examples of this). Might be broken for solo due to absurd regen stacking with new selfheal + kiting (no experience, mine was always full crit) but then again solo balance is lost anyway and this thread was obviously aimed at largescale.

Really depends on how you look at white lion,Just about every scenario I've been in white lions are topping the K/D in most cases while topping the damage charts not just that it's not fluff damage, so while I get the pet is a big component of the WL and it can die, let's not kid ourselves and assume that white lion is in a terrible state, also it being a not so great class I see the class in top weekly/monthly kills quite often as a melee character that doesn't have amazing AoE like choppa, essentially despite it's shortcomings white lion is quite strong for what it is, sure in warbands it might have in shortcomings, and btw mentioning the loner spec, yeh it's terrible, cause the lion is doing way more than 25% of your damage plus everything else it has to offer.

I btw have both a RR80 WL and a RR80 mara, and the WL is gross in most circumstances and as you mentioned way easier to pilot, it's why I tend to graviate towards my mara more for the complexity, but even than sometimes I'm doing scenarios and i'm like why bother, so if you're looking at things from a warband perspective sure white lion can feel mediocre, but in scenario's and small scale instances, na white lion is a menace since the lion isn't as easy to kill as you think, since I spend most of my time in scenario's it can be pretty demoralizing, but hey it is what it is.

With that said SH's and SW's as mentioned are also a problem, and i'll admit that in open maps with enough squig herders on one side with support and it's pretty disgusting, same with SW's, but as I mentioned in my previous post in warbands it's different, problem with this game is the balancing will never be perfect, since it has to take into account warband fights, smaller skirmishes like scenario's, and everything else.

[BoriqOne]

@Wardfan220 Brother listen up .... all on here gaslight reality to their own fun and advantages, (TROLLING). Destro players that play order are the ones in WB/s never solo. they make the moves to blob vs blob. order can't do anything else on this server. Next destro plays all types of way on destro cause they can. order can't we have to blob or roam in a 24 man group ... get my drift, "wink" or get abused left, right and center cause THE Reality they have better classes, end of story. best play destro and all problems are solved instantly. Freaking INSTANTLY!!!. I'll play more destro now cause of the balance is on destro not on order. destro is easy peasy ... ORDER IS FOR DESTRO PLAYERS TO GET ON AND GET THEIR HOMIES KILLS. they feed off order players. so don't be naive just go destro and enjoy the game and do as they do gaslight order players , so we can kill em off and say their fine, wooohooohoooo !!!

[Shogun4138]

Its a great class that adds to everything. Solo, small man, warband. They can reset any fight. Its just obvious. I dont want them nerfed. My point was if they suck on 3 characters then maybe they should play regen WLs

Whenever I read one of your posts it's literally the most dogshit approach I've ever seen. It's beyond clear you got a personal vendetta against WL yet don't know how the class actually functions. Maybe don't engage with your counterclass and then complain about them being the best class in the game?

WL quite literally has the LEAST baseline utility in the ENTIRE game: 20% attackspeed slow, STR debuff from behind, pull tied to pet. The only thing WL ever had was strong frontloaded burst and mobility through leap but has to work with a buggy and weak pet to make it work - that's the entire identity of the class. WL doesn't have a single CC in Loner spec - not even one, none of the utility/debuffs Mara has, no groupbuff or similar, it literally has nothing but a single aoe interrupt you need to spec for (which Mara has baseline btw). Mara has higher dmg/dps especially in WB setting due to WL requiring pet for crit tactic while Mara doesn't and also has better crit%/stat tactics. It honestly feels like playing a template or work-in-progress class from an early access game because it's just so damn shallow and empty. The only saving grace is Pounce.
WL is the best mdps on Order, sure, but not because they are good but rather because they are the least shitty option and require negative brainpower to function at a decent level.
Additionally WL is horrible in small scale/grp too (lol) because any group with a basic understanding will immediately burst down the squishy pet and then won't have to worry about WL at all for 15s since they don't do meaningful ST dmg on their own (ranked matches were prime examples of this). Might be broken for solo due to absurd regen stacking with new selfheal + kiting (no experience, mine was always full crit) but then again solo balance is lost anyway and this thread was obviously aimed at largescale.

You must suck on a WL.