Stealth Nerf to Magus Damage?

[MaxMcKee]

Why every Magus thread keeps getting hijacked by the same whining again and again?

When, in the history of RoR, has a Magus posed a threat in a group content? N E V E R. No ST (Strong ST without access to Heal debuff? Really?), small AoE burst and no unique utility (maybe rifting on the rare ocassions where it was not bugged as it has more range than choppa's)

Magus is only strong due to its toolbox which makes him a quite good solo roam character, a nice addition for PvE parties and a nice to have utility provider for a WB but that is it. In group content, the toolbox is overshadowed by Chosen + Choppa combinations. I really would like those people complaining about maguses to post some videos or gameplay (other than solo roaming) where the magus is overperforming. I used to consider AoE dot pressure a good enough role for Magus but with the current disrupt/block rates, is more than ever fluf damage for the most part.

Do not get me wrong, its a fun class to play and it feels different RDPS playstyle over Sorc and SH.

Yes, Magus >> Engineer for the most part but that is a different issue tbd in a different thread if you want.


Regarding the topic of the thread:
Where did you notice the damage nerf? Which skills?

This. Magus is a great solo roaming class, but it has never been a good class to bring to organised groups. It also performs well in unorganised PUG scenarios, but that’s about it, really.

This patch did not change any of that, IMO. In fact, Havoc ST has been nerfed in some important ways.

Withering Souls now provides 5% less incoming damage reduction, and the duration of the DoT was also shortened by 5 seconds, if I remember correctly. This means it needs to be reapplied more often, increasing the AP cost of an already AP-starved class. This is especially problematic because of constantly resummoning a stationary pet that costs 55 AP.

Indigo Fire of Change (the beam) had an interesting use pre-patch: you could regain 120 AP if the target died during the channel. This AP effect has now been removed and replaced with a gimmicky low-damage add that roams around, breaking staggers and hitting SnB tanks. Would be cool if it had bigger impact, although i agree it would be hard to balance.

Indigo Fire of Change was also stealth-nerfed in another, more important way: it can no longer be channeled from start to finish with basically 0 AP. Pre-patch, the channel would continue even after you reached 0 AP.

Some things were buffed, most notably the 10 ft. increase in range while standing with the pink pet, as well as Withering Souls becoming undefendable.

Changes to single-target Havoc can be summarised as follows: worse AP management, lower damage potential, a slight increase in range, and an undefendable DoT.

Magus is still in the same position as it was pre-patch: overtuned in solo play and a good class for unorganised scenarios.

A more interesting approach would be to remove the 20% increased damage from standing close to the pet. This was only added as a band-aid for Magus/Engi towards the end of the live server because they were always worst dps choice for the entire length of liver servers.

To compensate, they could make summoning the pets instant and reduce the AP cost to 0 AP, without requiring a tactic. Why does the lowest-damage pet, which is stationary, cost the same amount of AP as other pet classes whose pets deal more damage and follow them around?

That change would lower Magus's burst damage, but make the class more mobile and prevent it from being forced to resummon its pet every few metres while completely AP-drained.

[gisborne]

I don't get the people saying Magus is OP. I don't play one but they, along with Sorc, are the weakest Destro DPS from my perspective as a healer. By far.

Ignoring anyone who says solo.

[Tetzou]

Small patch this morning, and boom my Magus PBAoE rotation is suddenly doing 19–22% less damage.

What was changed precisely? Any written notes from game development??

[Farrul]

Engy has to stack WS. Magus doesn’t. Guildies play def Magus with 1k TGH and see little difference in their damage.

Yep, and that seems balanced to you? The magic itemization has always been a concern in RoR, something never properly addressed.

If the engineer had corporeal based singletarget tree, with equivalent tools like the Magi, likewise it would have been OP.

Am I wrong or with new patch engi riflemen got tactic to make corporeal damage with shot ?

It makes the AoE attack on the right tree corporeal based, goes hand in hand with the engineer's toolkit since they are magical based in their AoE.

In terms of AoE these two classes seems balanced enough? The big different in ST, roaming etc. Magus is way more powerful.

[chook06]

Engy has to stack WS. Magus doesn’t. Guildies play def Magus with 1k TGH and see little difference in their damage.

Yep, and that seems balanced to you? The magic itemization has always been a concern in RoR, something never properly addressed.

If the engineer had corporeal based singletarget tree, with equivalent tools like the Magi, likewise it would have been OP (No AA, obviously).

This is simply not possible in AoE again, I’m not talking about single-target here.

If the player is genuinely running a defensive setup while still reaching around 1000 Intelligence, there are necessarily several significant trade-offs:

- First, his critical hit rate will be significantly lower. That means he won’t be able to properly take advantage of Surging Power, which already creates a substantial gap compared to a setup genuinely optimized for damage.
- Second, his Magic Power should be somewhere around 210, which is again well below what you can achieve with an offensive BiS setup.
- More importantly, these two factors stack and reinforce each other: lower Magic Power reduces your baseline damage, while a lower crit rate reduces both the frequency of your critical hits and the value you can get from Surging Power. As a result, the actual gap between a defensive build and an offensive BiS build becomes very significant.

Overall, I mostly agree with what another player said: the ranged AoE tree is primarily a pressure spec. It can generate a lot of overall damage, but it remains relatively limited when it comes to converting that pressure into actual kills, mainly because its burst is limited.

The new PBAoE spec is different. With a properly built rotation and a build genuinely optimized around its synergies, the burst is definitely there, but it comes with significant constraints.

In my opinion, PBAoE Magus has now become a credible alternative to Choppa, Marauder, or Sorcerer in a warband. However, there is one key difference: to reach a comparable level of effectiveness, you need both excellent gear ideally close to BiS and a very good understanding of the class, its timings, and its rotations.

Ultimately, Magus leaves relatively little room for error. With poor gear, a poorly optimized build, or poor execution, it quickly becomes a fairly average class and remains well behind the other options. But when properly optimized and played well, the potential is definitely there.

[Farrul]

Ultimately, Magus leaves relatively little room for error. With poor gear, a poorly optimized build, or poor execution, it quickly becomes a fairly average class and remains well behind the other options. But when properly optimized and played well, the potential is definitely there.

I don't know anything about their AoE except that the napalm equivalent is a great tool to build tank M4 morale on during sieges. I wouldn't mind if they got buffed in that department along with Engineers, which on order are not comparable to meta classes like WL nor even BW and the nerfed slayer.

Overall Imho this RDPS was a missed opportunity for both Magus and Engineer, not addressing the AoE or quality of life of certain pet mechanics, at the same time leaving Magus to be an abomination now with teleport in the smaller scale roaming scenery. Attracting the wrong kind of players, the griefing/toxic kind to the class unfortunately.

[fatelvis]

[...]
The new PBAoE spec is different. With a properly built rotation and a build genuinely optimized around its synergies, the burst is definitely there, but it comes with significant constraints.

In my opinion, PBAoE Magus has now become a credible alternative to Choppa, Marauder, or Sorcerer in a warband. However, there is one key difference: to reach a comparable level of effectiveness, you need both excellent gear ideally close to BiS and a very good understanding of the class, its timings, and its rotations.

Ultimately, Magus leaves relatively little room for error. With poor gear, a poorly optimized build, or poor execution, it quickly becomes a fairly average class and remains well behind the other options. But when properly optimized and played well, the potential is definitely there.

You still did not manage to mention which skills exactly seem weaker to you now or what aspects of your optimized gameplay don't work anymore. You'd need to give some details to get an answer on your original question I guess.
Would also be interesting if the engie aoe spec is affected as well then.

[Kanser]

Engy has to stack WS. Magus doesn’t. Guildies play def Magus with 1k TGH and see little difference in their damage.

Yep, and that seems balanced to you? The magic itemization has always been a concern in RoR, something never properly addressed.

If the engineer had corporeal based singletarget tree, with equivalent tools like the Magi, likewise it would have been OP.

Am I wrong or with new patch engi riflemen got tactic to make corporeal damage with shot ?

Magus has demonic lash as spirit damage just for free. Enginier has to invest a tactic slot to have his shotgun (mirror skill) corporal so it can be used in melee builds where you cannot stuck WS else you will just have either no defence or no ballistics.

Whining about an enginier having an auto attack here is just stupid as it is an aoe melee build, you don't autoattack here

[chook06]

[...]
The new PBAoE spec is different. With a properly built rotation and a build genuinely optimized around its synergies, the burst is definitely there, but it comes with significant constraints.

In my opinion, PBAoE Magus has now become a credible alternative to Choppa, Marauder, or Sorcerer in a warband. However, there is one key difference: to reach a comparable level of effectiveness, you need both excellent gear ideally close to BiS and a very good understanding of the class, its timings, and its rotations.

Ultimately, Magus leaves relatively little room for error. With poor gear, a poorly optimized build, or poor execution, it quickly becomes a fairly average class and remains well behind the other options. But when properly optimized and played well, the potential is definitely there.

You still did not manage to mention which skills exactly seem weaker to you now or what aspects of your optimized gameplay don't work anymore. You'd need to give some details to get an answer on your original question I guess.
Would also be interesting if the engie aoe spec is affected as well then.

Hello, I’m only talking about my AoE/PBAoE rotation here. I’m not analyzing each ability individually, but rather the overall damage of my full PBAoE rotation.

What I can tell you is that, compared to the build from two days ago, I was doing around 16–22% more damage. So the decrease is quite significant.

My tests were based on around 20 attempts.

[Keula]

What I can tell you is that, compared to the build from two days ago, I was doing around 16–22% more damage. So the decrease is quite significant.

My tests were based on around 20 attempts.

Where is the data then showcasing nerfed abilities then? Surely if you have "20 attempts" you have screenshots. There are no patch notes about any nerf in the hotfix, so how do you expect us to believe this without any data? Can't just say deal's 20% less dmg without ANY examples of what/how specific ability dmg values got nerfed, or if there was some bugged ability that did way more than it was suppose to do.