[Split] Marauder discussion

[Azarael]

Tooltip mismatches will be inevitable. I'm not too bothered about those; we'll make a thread detailing any changes from live.

[Euan]

after some of these posts is clear as the sun that some ppl dont want their shiny tools touch or they are rather medium-poor player.

Ah the good old ad-hominem logical fallcy.

Here is a wikipedia link for you, educate yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I disagree. You can literally nerf-button the mara onto 1 button and just destroy people. I've seen it done.. it's extremely easy to keep someone debuffed 100% of the time and be bursting like crazy. It's literally a 1 button class with NB. Before you start talking about, 'WELL WITHOUT NB IT'S NOT THAT EASY!!!" Sure, but we have NB and people will use it. Therefore, you either bring the class in line so that the potential it can be is in line with other classes and raise the skill ceiling on the class, or turn a blind-eye to how OP the class is so that EVERYONE will be running Mara trains ( which WILL happen.. it was the case on live). Mara trains were around all the time, why do you think every competitive group ran 2 marauders?

Suicide Yoooo
TFC
Aluba Shrimp..

All the good Destro guilds ran 2 Chosen or 1Ch/1BG, 2 marauders, and 2 doks. If the class was balanced or missing something they would have had another mDPS in the group. It was just too strong. Look at order:

2 KotBS / 2 Slayer / 2 WP. Is slayer OP? **** yea it's op.. why even try to deny it? Because you play the class? You played that marauder basically the entire time on live, we know you like it, why pretend like you're on the side of balance? You're clearly trying to keep the marauder way above anything else in the game so that you can be a Main DPS of any group and be godlike with Gaurd and pocket heals behind you. The problem is, the class is overpowered and once we hit t4 the forums will light up like a damn christmas tree about marauder nerfs and the class will be nerfed anyway.

I don't care what they nerf/buff, I play the game for fun and have no problem pointing out what's OP on either side.

Mara is OP
Slayer is OP

Weird how you say now Slayer is OP to help your argument. Lets look back at your other post.

Now that choppas damage is gimped compared to slayer it makes SL seem very OP.

Notice how you're trying to defend shatter limbs even though its clearly broken? For a character you play thats on the realm you play. I know, you moved on to the OP T2 SW but your Slayer has not gone unnoticed even if you removed him from you signature. It is you who is in denial. No matter how many times you say it,Marauder is not OP. Slayer is the only imbalanced MDPS. Nice try.

[foof]

after some of these posts is clear as the sun that some ppl dont want their shiny tools touch or they are rather medium-poor player.

Ah the good old ad-hominem logical fallcy.

Here is a wikipedia link for you, educate yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I disagree. You can literally nerf-button the mara onto 1 button and just destroy people. I've seen it done.. it's extremely easy to keep someone debuffed 100% of the time and be bursting like crazy. It's literally a 1 button class with NB. Before you start talking about, 'WELL WITHOUT NB IT'S NOT THAT EASY!!!" Sure, but we have NB and people will use it. Therefore, you either bring the class in line so that the potential it can be is in line with other classes and raise the skill ceiling on the class, or turn a blind-eye to how OP the class is so that EVERYONE will be running Mara trains ( which WILL happen.. it was the case on live). Mara trains were around all the time, why do you think every competitive group ran 2 marauders?

Suicide Yoooo
TFC
Aluba Shrimp..

All the good Destro guilds ran 2 Chosen or 1Ch/1BG, 2 marauders, and 2 doks. If the class was balanced or missing something they would have had another mDPS in the group. It was just too strong. Look at order:

2 KotBS / 2 Slayer / 2 WP. Is slayer OP? **** yea it's op.. why even try to deny it? Because you play the class? You played that marauder basically the entire time on live, we know you like it, why pretend like you're on the side of balance? You're clearly trying to keep the marauder way above anything else in the game so that you can be a Main DPS of any group and be godlike with Gaurd and pocket heals behind you. The problem is, the class is overpowered and once we hit t4 the forums will light up like a damn christmas tree about marauder nerfs and the class will be nerfed anyway.

I don't care what they nerf/buff, I play the game for fun and have no problem pointing out what's OP on either side.

Mara is OP
Slayer is OP

The Ad-Hominem comment wasn't about that, what that means is that trying to discredit the person your argument by calling their character into question is a failure in arguing.

I wasn't trying to say that the "Marauder is hard to play", nor that NB doesn't exist. They class isn't hard to play even without NB, that misses my point. You can manually get a NB rotation down more or less, but none of that changes stance cooldowns, which is my point.

NB or not, you open with TB-CC-TC (Wounds-armor-heal, or wounds-heal-armor, whatever you find needed), swap over to Brutality, and start using Impale/Guillotene as needed.

My point is, you've only got about 5 seconds of DPS time in Brutality before your armor/heal debuffs drop. Once you swap back over to Sav to re-apply them, there goes your damage for another 5 seconds. Etc. rinse and repeat.

In a best case situation, the Maruder is debuffing 50% of the time (5 seconds stuck in Sav), and then DPSing the other 50% of the time (5 seconds in Brut, but you need to switch back to Sav to re-apply debuffs).

Of course, running two Marauders you can alleviate this issue for one of them if both are focusing on the same target, as you don't need to have two sets of debuffs on one target. So one guy can just stay in Brutality DPSing for longer unless you split focus fire.

[foof]

no NB is not really need; when you change stance you also swap skills, you need nb to bind skills and save space to be faster but with 4-5 skill in every stance to use it's like warhamemr online have his own incorporate NB alredy inside mara.

Just saying you can literally still NB the entire rotation of the marauder and keep anyone you want to 100% debuffed. Wounds, Armor, Toughness, Heal debuffed 100% uptime and on top of burst them when they get low.

The marauder is the swiss army knife of Destro. The problem lies in the fact that It's the ONLY viable DPS for competitive groups, so of course destruction doesn't want it nerfed. They're scared they will be nerfed into the ground. The other mDPS and DPS needs to be buffed to compensate and be in line with order's. That's how you get people to relax and accept balance.

The Marauder is the swiss arm knife of Destro.

My reasoning on not wanting the class nerfed has nothing to do with what Destro wants, but how the class is designed, and balanced vs the other MDPS classes. Yes, if it is the only MDPS class being run by Destro, that's a problem, and we should find a solution, but the proposed issues are wrong, and the proposed changes are therefore wrong.

As I state in this thread many times as well, there are two ways to go about this. Either bring up the Choppa/WL to the Slayer/Mara level, or of course, nerf the Slayer/Mara, I for one, am much more inclined to buff up weak classes to make them viable. That being said, there are a variety of changes you could make to Marauder to tweak them downwards without making them a poor class. While I think this is wrong approach in general, we need to properly discern what makes a Marauder "OP", in comparison to the other MDPS classes.

As you state, it is the "swiss army knife" of MDPS classes. It has the potential to have solid debuffs, solid damage, and solid survivbility, but it doesn't have the best damage, it doesn't have all the debuffs, and its survivability is only slightly higher than most other MDPS classes (and much below tanks). Suggestions like Tesqs are precisely the wrong approach to trying to balance the class, as they would essentially make it impossible for the Marauder to be effective.

There are ways to reduce the Marauders overall level of power, but thats not why you and others think they are overpowered. The real reason you guys think they are overpowered (as stated) is the classes versitility. You don't want a class that is able to have good debuffs, good damage, and good survivability, even if it isn't all at the same time (because for a Marauder, it isn't obviously), but the class has the option to "switch over" to one of those as necessary, making it a swiss army knife esque comparison.

There are a variety of ways to achieve this:

1. Crystallize the stances more. What do I mean by this? What I mean is, make the stances more restrictive on what a Marauder can do. For instance, my growing instability change suggestion above. Right now, it gives the Marauder 50% crit damage, in any stance. However, Brutality stance is the Marauders damage stance. Why shouldn't Growing Instability be particularly effective in Brutality, but less so in the other stances? So a suggestion change alone this mindset is to change growing instability to only a 25% crit damage increase when in Savagery or Monstrosity Stances. This means that to deal high damage, the Marauder must be in Brutality stance. They will get reduced damage when in Savagery to debuff or Monstro to stay alive.

2. Tone down one of the classes aspects. Such as just nerfing damage, nerfing debuffs, or nerfing survivability. This is "doable", but I believe to be the wrong approach to a bad balance decision in the first place. That being said, if I had to pick anything to go here, it is the survivability. The Marauders survivability benefits are already overrated, and if people think it is over the top, just do something like remove the heal leech from Deadly Clutch. There, you now solved the "uber" survivability of the Marauder and brought it in line. This is a change most Marauders wouldn't even care about, as it is so overrated in terms of what it can do and how much healing it provides.

The one thing that shouldn't be adjusted downwards too far is the Marauders damage. A MDPS class that can't deal DPS is not a good thing, as there is a reason that the Marauders damage was buffed time and again from launch of WAR, because at launch, their damage was worse than DPS tanks, and they served no purpose to bring anywhere outside of pulls and an armor debuff (they did not have the wounds debuff at this point in time). I remember these days, and no Marauder player wants to go back to the days of being a pull bot.

However, if a Marauder can't debuff, and can't deal damage, it is not going to be a "must have class" anymore for Destro, you are absolutely correct. It isn't going to be a "used" class for Destro anymore either, because that is what you call an over-nerf. This is specifically the classes role, and if it cannot achieve this, it won't be good. If you take out the Marauders debuffs/nerf them significantly, then you get a WL with bad mobility, or a Choppa/Zerker with bad damage. If you take out the Marauders damage, you get a horrible class that serves no purpose besides being a weird debuffing bad off-tank.

Essentially, every MDPS class has its pros and cons, the Marauder included. I'd much rather be talking about buffing the WL and the Choppa, who definitely need it, then locked into this discussion because that is the proper way to balance this game. However, there are ways to tone down the Marauders power level if you want to go in that direction, ways that would make it weaker, but not bad. Tesqs idea for instance, would make the Marauder have to choose between being able to deal DPS, and heal debuffing, which would make it just bad.

[foof]

Notice how you're trying to defend shatter limbs even though its clearly broken? For a character you play thats on the realm you play. I know, you moved on to the OP T2 SW but your Slayer has not gone unnoticed even if you removed him from you signature. It is you who is in denial. No matter how many times you say it,Marauder is not OP. Slayer is the only imbalanced MDPS. Nice try.

Euan makes a solid overall point.

Is the Marauder the best Destro MDPS? Yes.
Is the Slayer the best Order MDPS? Yes.

Does that mean they are the best for the same reasons, and need the same solutions? No. Just because the Slayer (specifically in two regards, Shatter Limbs and Rampage), is overpowered, it doesn't necessarily mean that the Marauder is also overpowered for the same reasons, or at all. Just because they are both the best MDPS classes for their perspective realms doesn't mean that the balance relation they have to each other, the rest of the MDPS classes, and the rest of the classes in the game as a whole is the same, because it isn't.

The Marauder doesn't have anything as one sided or game-breaking as Rampage and Shatter Limbs. The Slayer is overpowered for a very specific reason (undefendable AoE damage + the only viable AoE cooldown increase ability). The Marauder is claimed to be overpowered for a very un-specific reason (they just do too much!). The Marauder doesn't have any of this one sided game-breaking appeal to it. They aren't the only MDPS with a heal debuff, the wounds debuff isn't even that good (as Tesq likes to point out again in again), they are plenty of other ways to get wounds debuffs, heals debuffs, and armor debuffs on targets without having a Marauder. There are no other ways to make an AoE spamming undefendable MDPS who can AoE increase cooldowns.

Essentially, the logic used in such an argument is a typical logical failure.

Slayer is top order MDPS, slayer is OP.

Marauder is top destro MDPS, must mean Marauder is OP because Slayer is OP.

That is just simplistic and bad logic.

The Slayer is not OP because it is Orders top MDPS. It is OP because it can two precisely two things nobody else can do reliably (nobody else gets a rampage equivilent, and bad gas is in such a stupid position in a stupid playstyle of the Squig that it never sees play). The Slayer could easily be orders top MDPS and still not be OP. Just beacuse something is considered top or the best doesn't make it OP. No matter what, even if you re-balance all the classes in the game, someone will land as the "top" position. The real question is how close are the second and third choices. If they are too far behind, then you have a problem. If everyone is relatively close, then you have balance. No matter what, you will always have the top, and just nerfing the top because its at the top is not balance, its playing whack a mole.

But the reality of the Slayer is that the class is OP, and it has nothing to do with the classes raw damage potential or role. The Slayer should be doing awesome damage! What the problem is, is that tanks can't properly gear to mitigate Slayer damage (because Rampage is stupid and overpowered), and that destro doesn't have a proper equivalent to Shatter Limbs. Shatter Limbs itself isn't inherently overpowered, and it would be a fine ability of the Slayer to have, if Destro could get access to an equal ability on a class that could actually use it. What is overpowered about Shatter Limbs is that its on the high damage MDPS class on Order, and on the melee spec of a RDPS class on Destro. The ability itself is fine on the Slayer.

If we were to use the same logic on the Marauder, things that could be considered OP wouldn't be its access to debuffs, or damage (things that plenty of classes/MDPS can do) but much like the Slayer, things that nobody else can do or things that aren't properly mirrored to each realm. An example of this would be the -armor pen for Monstro stance proc, as the Marauder is the only class in the game with access to it, or the heal leech tactic. One could argue that Pounce on the WL is also in the same situation (and some people do). So if we were to fix the Marauder using the same logic as the Slayer, what you would fix are those problematic things that nobody else can replicate. You either fix them by nerfing them (like you would Rampage) or mirroring them properly (like you would to Shatter Limbs). For instance, you could either remove the heal leech from deadly clutch, or mirror it onto another class on Order. Either way you'd solve the issue, which is having something that they other realm cannot do.

[Rapzel]

The problem Foof is that Destro thinks these classes are OP; BW, SW, Slayer, WL, WP, KotBS and Engi (because they have auto attack which Magus doesn't have )

It wouldn't surprise me if there's some people thinking that there's more OP classes on Order side.

Order on the other hand thinks these are the OP classes; MA and DoK (I guess Magus will be here in t3 when they start scaling better).

They're also constantly blaming Aza for being Order Biased, going so far that he even wrote it in his signature on this forum, a long with some people starting an Order guild to take a "piss" at this.

Two classes needs to be tuned down a little bit (Slayer and Mara) some classes needs to get minor buffs (WL, SH to compensate for bad pet AI and BO, SM for not being as good as the "alternatives").

But no obviously every career that can beat them in a 1v1 is OP end of discussion.

Edit; fat fingers, not AM, SM ofc.

[Ungrin]

Notice how you're trying to defend shatter limbs even though its clearly broken? For a character you play thats on the realm you play. I know, you moved on to the OP T2 SW but your Slayer has not gone unnoticed even if you removed him from you signature. It is you who is in denial. No matter how many times you say it,Marauder is not OP. Slayer is the only imbalanced MDPS. Nice try.

I've played my slayer a grand total of like twice maybe in the past two months. It's literally not even something that I enjoy playing anymore. I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible, but if you remember my slayer as OP, maybe that's a compliment in and of itself. I'm glad you remember my OP slayer, brah.

But seriously, to even suggest that Marauder isn't OP, even when you have a diecore Destro player like Tesq telling you that Marauder is OP.. that should tell you something.

I'm not going to take the word of a person who has played nothing but maruader for years on live as THE word on balance.

Marauder compared to WL, Choppa, and even yes, the slayer, is game-breakingly OP. It's the reason why you saw 2 marauder groups on live. If they were missing burst on live, they would've run a choppa. They didn't. They Ran Marax2 in each Power group because the damn thing is overpowered. It needs to be toned down. The best way to do this is take something from Mara and give it to the Choppa. I'm not taking it away from Destro, I'm moving it to diversify the group builds and help the Choppa to be more in line with the Slayer/Mara. I've said time and time again, nerf the slayer as well to help bring things into balance. Stop trying to suggest I'm trying to make Slayers OP. You know it's not true. You haven't suggested one thing to bring things in line, only that "slayers OP, nerf slayers bro." SUGGEST SOMETHING OR PLEASE STOP POSTING.

no NB is not really need; when you change stance you also swap skills, you need nb to bind skills and save space to be faster but with 4-5 skill in every stance to use it's like warhamemr online have his own incorporate NB alredy inside mara.

Just saying you can literally still NB the entire rotation of the marauder and keep anyone you want to 100% debuffed. Wounds, Armor, Toughness, Heal debuffed 100% uptime and on top of burst them when they get low.

The marauder is the swiss army knife of Destro. The problem lies in the fact that It's the ONLY viable DPS for competitive groups, so of course destruction doesn't want it nerfed. They're scared they will be nerfed into the ground. The other mDPS and DPS needs to be buffed to compensate and be in line with order's. That's how you get people to relax and accept balance.

The Marauder is the swiss arm knife of Destro.

My reasoning on not wanting the class nerfed has nothing to do with what Destro wants, but how the class is designed, and balanced vs the other MDPS classes. Yes, if it is the only MDPS class being run by Destro, that's a problem, and we should find a solution, but the proposed issues are wrong, and the proposed changes are therefore wrong.

As I state in this thread many times as well, there are two ways to go about this. Either bring up the Choppa/WL to the Slayer/Mara level, or of course, nerf the Slayer/Mara, I for one, am much more inclined to buff up weak classes to make them viable. That being said, there are a variety of changes you could make to Marauder to tweak them downwards without making them a poor class. While I think this is wrong approach in general, we need to properly discern what makes a Marauder "OP", in comparison to the other MDPS classes.

As you state, it is the "swiss army knife" of MDPS classes. It has the potential to have solid debuffs, solid damage, and solid survivbility, but it doesn't have the best damage, it doesn't have all the debuffs, and its survivability is only slightly higher than most other MDPS classes (and much below tanks). Suggestions like Tesqs are precisely the wrong approach to trying to balance the class, as they would essentially make it impossible for the Marauder to be effective.

There are ways to reduce the Marauders overall level of power, but thats not why you and others think they are overpowered. The real reason you guys think they are overpowered (as stated) is the classes versitility. You don't want a class that is able to have good debuffs, good damage, and good survivability, even if it isn't all at the same time (because for a Marauder, it isn't obviously), but the class has the option to "switch over" to one of those as necessary, making it a swiss army knife esque comparison.

There are a variety of ways to achieve this:

1. Crystallize the stances more. What do I mean by this? What I mean is, make the stances more restrictive on what a Marauder can do. For instance, my growing instability change suggestion above. Right now, it gives the Marauder 50% crit damage, in any stance. However, Brutality stance is the Marauders damage stance. Why shouldn't Growing Instability be particularly effective in Brutality, but less so in the other stances? So a suggestion change alone this mindset is to change growing instability to only a 25% crit damage increase when in Savagery or Monstrosity Stances. This means that to deal high damage, the Marauder must be in Brutality stance. They will get reduced damage when in Savagery to debuff or Monstro to stay alive.

2. Tone down one of the classes aspects. Such as just nerfing damage, nerfing debuffs, or nerfing survivability. This is "doable", but I believe to be the wrong approach to a bad balance decision in the first place. That being said, if I had to pick anything to go here, it is the survivability. The Marauders survivability benefits are already overrated, and if people think it is over the top, just do something like remove the heal leech from Deadly Clutch. There, you now solved the "uber" survivability of the Marauder and brought it in line. This is a change most Marauders wouldn't even care about, as it is so overrated in terms of what it can do and how much healing it provides.

The one thing that shouldn't be adjusted downwards too far is the Marauders damage. A MDPS class that can't deal DPS is not a good thing, as there is a reason that the Marauders damage was buffed time and again from launch of WAR, because at launch, their damage was worse than DPS tanks, and they served no purpose to bring anywhere outside of pulls and an armor debuff (they did not have the wounds debuff at this point in time). I remember these days, and no Marauder player wants to go back to the days of being a pull bot.

However, if a Marauder can't debuff, and can't deal damage, it is not going to be a "must have class" anymore for Destro, you are absolutely correct. It isn't going to be a "used" class for Destro anymore either, because that is what you call an over-nerf. This is specifically the classes role, and if it cannot achieve this, it won't be good. If you take out the Marauders debuffs/nerf them significantly, then you get a WL with bad mobility, or a Choppa/Zerker with bad damage. If you take out the Marauders damage, you get a horrible class that serves no purpose besides being a weird debuffing bad off-tank.

Essentially, every MDPS class has its pros and cons, the Marauder included. I'd much rather be talking about buffing the WL and the Choppa, who definitely need it, then locked into this discussion because that is the proper way to balance this game. However, there are ways to tone down the Marauders power level if you want to go in that direction, ways that would make it weaker, but not bad. Tesqs idea for instance, would make the Marauder have to choose between being able to deal DPS, and heal debuffing, which would make it just bad.

I can agree with that Foof. Let's try and see if we can either bring about balance by Buffing up the other classes and if we can't then let's see if we can tone the other two down?

I'd say it's something we can do if we all work together on some ideas.

Let's take what you suggest on Mara or on the Choppa / Slayer / WL and see if we can bring things to a better balance and if possible, test them. That way, if buffing the others creates larger imbalances and we take the "Time to kill" way too low, then we can do things in the other direction and start toning down the slayer and Mara.

[Euan]

Notice how you're trying to defend shatter limbs even though its clearly broken? For a character you play thats on the realm you play. I know, you moved on to the OP T2 SW but your Slayer has not gone unnoticed even if you removed him from you signature. It is you who is in denial. No matter how many times you say it,Marauder is not OP. Slayer is the only imbalanced MDPS. Nice try.

I've played my slayer a grand total of like twice maybe in the past two months. It's literally not even something that I enjoy playing anymore. I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible, but if you remember my slayer as OP, maybe that's a compliment in and of itself. I'm glad you remember my OP slayer, brah.

But seriously, to even suggest that Marauder is OP, even when you have a diecore Destro player like Tesq telling you that Marauder is OP.. that should tell you something.

I'm not going to take the word of a person who has played nothing but maruader for years on live as THE word on balance.

Marauder compared to WL, Choppa, and even yes, the slayer, is game-breakingly OP. It's the reason why you saw 2 marauder groups on live. If they were missing burst on live, they would've run a choppa. They didn't. They Ran Marax2 in each Power group because the damn thing is overpowered. It needs to be toned down. The best way to do this is take something from Mara and give it to the Choppa. I'm not taking it away from Destro, I'm moving it to diversify the group builds and help the Choppa to be more in line with the Slayer/Mara. I've said time and time again, nerf the slayer as well to help bring things into balance. Stop trying to suggest I'm trying to make Slayers OP. You know it's not true. You haven't suggested one thing to bring things in line, only that "slayers OP, nerf slayers bro." SUGGEST SOMETHING OR PLEASE STOP POSTING.

I actually played Chosen and Squig Herder more than I did my Marauder. Even now I play my Witch Elf and DoK more than my Marauder. This is completely irrelevant btw, it doens't help your case. Even if I only played Marauder, it still wouldn't make you right. I only point out your Slayer because your bias shows and you tried to hide him, lol. I never mentioned you suggesting you trying to make Slayers OP. I think you were trying to nerf Marauder and keep Slayer as is because you're bad. Now you're backpeddling. Foof already covered everything multiple times but you don't get it and you never will. I am done replying to you and I won't even bother with Tesq who is borderline something. I'm sure the Devs will see through you.

[Ungrin]

Notice how you're trying to defend shatter limbs even though its clearly broken? For a character you play thats on the realm you play. I know, you moved on to the OP T2 SW but your Slayer has not gone unnoticed even if you removed him from you signature. It is you who is in denial. No matter how many times you say it,Marauder is not OP. Slayer is the only imbalanced MDPS. Nice try.

I've played my slayer a grand total of like twice maybe in the past two months. It's literally not even something that I enjoy playing anymore. I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible, but if you remember my slayer as OP, maybe that's a compliment in and of itself. I'm glad you remember my OP slayer, brah.

But seriously, to even suggest that Marauder is OP, even when you have a diecore Destro player like Tesq telling you that Marauder is OP.. that should tell you something.

I'm not going to take the word of a person who has played nothing but maruader for years on live as THE word on balance.

Marauder compared to WL, Choppa, and even yes, the slayer, is game-breakingly OP. It's the reason why you saw 2 marauder groups on live. If they were missing burst on live, they would've run a choppa. They didn't. They Ran Marax2 in each Power group because the damn thing is overpowered. It needs to be toned down. The best way to do this is take something from Mara and give it to the Choppa. I'm not taking it away from Destro, I'm moving it to diversify the group builds and help the Choppa to be more in line with the Slayer/Mara. I've said time and time again, nerf the slayer as well to help bring things into balance. Stop trying to suggest I'm trying to make Slayers OP. You know it's not true. You haven't suggested one thing to bring things in line, only that "slayers OP, nerf slayers bro." SUGGEST SOMETHING OR PLEASE STOP POSTING.

I actually played Chosen and Squig Herder more than I did my Marauder. Even now I play my Witch Elf and DoK more than my Marauder. This is completely irrelevant btw, it doens't help your case. Even if I only played Marauder, it still wouldn't make you right. I only point out your Slayer because your bias shows and you tried to hide him, lol. I never mentioned you suggesting you trying to make Slayers OP. I think you were trying to nerf Marauder and keep Slayer as is because you're bad. Now you're backpeddling. Foof already covered everything multiple times but you don't get it and you never will. I am done replying to you and I won't even bother with Tesq who is borderline something. I'm sure the Devs will see through you.

When did I try to hide him? By putting him in my signature? By saying that I had RR100 of everything (as a joke). By talking about nerfing Slayers and saying that I'm even for a 100% mirror to Choppa? Which part of that was me trying to Keep slayers as-is? Yeah, before you call Tesq borderline something, I'd look in the mirror, bud. There's no backpeddling going on, maybe it's a little thing called reflection and trying to come up with a better idea for balance?

I don't know, maybe you're not used to people around you thinking about things rationally and coming to a different realization? I'm always for different ideas and different solutions. You're clearly just trolling though so clearly I'm going to just ignore what you have to say. You've literally done nothing but troll and put forth no suggestions.

[dur3al]

Since this thread is active, looking at Slayers and their AoE spam stuff...

Can DoKs still macro/addon right click the debuff like on live?

On another note, i'm very positive anyone with half a clue on live knows that marauders were in a stupid OP position before...