Warhammer Online: 1.4.9 Patch Notes on PTS

[Glaiveheart]

I can only speak for mostly pre-RR80 play because balance went completely out the window when the RR cap increases came in and renown abilities/gear scaling went a little bonkers.

The "significant drawback" for BW/Sorc, inherently, is that they are now a priority target and have to spend far more time being mobile than sitting there setting up/unloading rotations. I never found BW/Sorc to be over the top so long as you didn't leave them free, but perhaps coming from DAoC where my Paladin would get more or less two-shot by an RM after a cold debuff I was a little more wary of glassy bursters than the community at large. These are also the same people that would get wrecked by a guarded BW running in and popping PBAoE, so, I mean...

Frankly, the balancing was still bonkers a bit because you could mostly ignore them fresh off a rez or at the start of a fight, because they did nada for damage relative before they got their crit + crit damage boost. They really were one of those off/on classes.

[Azarael]

Fair enough. As my perspective on the game is somewhat dated, I'd ask: Why would a theoretical team choose to field any other RDPS over BW/Sorc?

[Glaiveheart]

Fair enough. As my perspective on the game is somewhat dated, I'd ask: Why would a theoretical team choose to field any other RDPS over BW/Sorc?

SW and SH (moreso than SW) were viable because they were far more mobile. It was not uncommon for us to slot in a SH to pair with a melee train b/c of the mobile casting w/ decent damage, heal debuff, long dur snare, M1/M2, and a pet that could be a huge pain in the ass. SW was more of an assist-the-train w/ steady DPS and help burn targets down kind of cast. Pepper people and then hot swap for a big hit + FtW, and the utility was more defensive than offensive (glass arrow to stop enemy rdps/healers from being able to hit distant targets, ranged snare while mobile to help back end kite) to keep mdps/tanks pushing. Oh, and of course, Leading Shots.

Engineer and Magus were very niche because ST they were basically BW/Sorc at 60% Combustion (aka outclassed) and their AoE was best to supplement that of BW/Sorc in a bomb setup (different effects, magnet). I played a Magus a lot in scens but that was more just to prove you could still devour souls with one (albeit anything I did on Magus I probably could have done better on Sorc).

[Azarael]

Thanks for taking the time to offer your insight.

[Glaiveheart]

Thanks for taking the time to offer your insight.

I do have to add we ran a train for a while w/ a melee SW (guy mained a WH) and it was a pretty brutal add to a melee-centric train. Made me want to gear my SW out but I never really did get good melee accessories/pocket items so I never got around to it. Certainly a far better thing than the stupid Squig spec SH.

[navis]

Fair enough. As my perspective on the game is somewhat dated, I'd ask: Why would a theoretical team choose to field any other RDPS over BW/Sorc?

If you want another perspective you need to also think about your available heals in your group. If you don't have alot then a non-bw/sorc will probably work better.

[PartizanRUS]

I still think people should have downloaded-copied whole bioware WHO forum. When they turned it off it was like murder, damn them.
This "additional damage based on Renown Rank" sounds like "buy our progression packs".

[Luth]

SW and SH have one special thing no other class has access to, a spamable healdebuff: Rotten Arrer and Shadow Sting.
Unfortunately the devs f*cked up the balance here a bit, as both classes have their debuffs flagged as "ailment".
You see Ailments far more often removed than curses on the destruction side, because the Dok can groupcleanse them per easymode-tactic.
Normally you see another type of debuff on each side of the "mirror" classes:

Slayer (ailment) / Choppa (curse)
Marauder (ailment) / White Lion (curse)
Witch Hunter (ailment) / Witch Elf (ailment) - same problem as with the SW/SH
Chosen (curse) / Kotbs (curse) - same Problem, but other direction
etc.

The BW/Sorc insane-damage-problem was somewhat countered with patch 1.4.0 if you have a high renown rank: they introduced the trivial blows tactic.
Afaik the 50% critdamage reduce hits those classes the hardest, because it is fully applied to their class mechanic. Classes with a critdamage increase tactic like this or this have their normal critdamage reduced by "trivial blows", but the extra amount via the tactic is not touched by TB.
Mythic stated later, that they don't want that players feel themselfes forced to buy a 45 renown point tactic, just to survive a 10 sec rotation of a Sorc/BW with full combustions.

[Foltestik]

at the late game (after trivial blows and most players rr100) sorc/BW was absolutly unplayeble in proper premades you can kill ****, only posibility how to kill was use full rotation (with boiling blood) but all normaly premade healer just cleance it and then you do **** dmg.
the game was realy dominated by melee trains not ranged

[Azarael]

Now I understand why this was never considered a problem. A tactic like Trivial Blows is a stupid idea, but I've never been a fan of excessive interference in the balance and game mechanics caused by some of the higher level gear procs, use items and renown abilities. It's a simple fact that if you add too many factors, and throw around abilities and effects too liberally, you shatter the original game design.

I expect that if Trivial Blows were to be reimplemented (God forbid) it would be subtractive instead of multiplicative on BW / Sorc critical damage.

@Partizan. The changes to BW/Sorc aren't a buff, though. The only reason Meltdown in particular gets more damage is because it's directly related to combustion levels.

The BW/Sorc discussion, while enlightening from my perspective, kinda pulled us away from the original topic. In general, what do people think of the 1.4.9 changes and would you support implementation of any of them here?