Is reward model driving current population inbalance

[Gerggregsson]

I think city rank should matter.

Please no.
Destro already has crippled population outside of prime time and order has easy PvD. Punishing destro for not having 5 stars would make it only worse. We don't have server population to support such ideas.

Yes, this is true unfortunately.
NA Destro often has had lower city-rank for a while so that wouldn't be fair.

As is it stands now the amount of stars in City Rank affects rewards earned from city currently:

Rewards are now based on City Rating.

- Cities Rating can now change. A cities rating will increase over the following time periods.

1 -> 2 in 12 hours

2 -> 3 in 16 hours

3 -> 4 in 20 hours

4 -> 5 in 24 hours

- The time until the next city rating will be displayed when you hover over a city on the world map.

- When all instances of a City Siege has finished the winning realm will be decided by how many instances had been won. If defenders win the city will decrease by 2 ranks (e.g. 4 -> 2), if attackers win the city will decrease to rank 1 regardless of its previous rank.

- Base Crest rewards for City Sieges are now dependent on the cities rating:

If you are participating in a siege city with a rating of 1 you will receive nothing per stage loss.
If win a city stage the amount of [War Crest] you get will receive depends on the City Rating, 10 crests per star for each stage win (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) and 4 Crests per star for each stage loss (4, 8, 12, 16, 20).

https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/City_Sieges

[gustavorey35]

because one side will have more people depending on the time zone or the amount of xrealm that are on one side or the other considering who has more advantage, in this case a damage debuff would be indicated for avoid overload of soldiers, the essence is the fight for the territories and the defense of the castle is great, you cannot force the fight to pvp in the open field because each faction has a fighting style, aggressive / defensive, the reward for defense is the right thing as in the victory by attack

[Zxul]

"Something with stances". Toughness sets = builds to counter premades. Thank you for your sacrifice to donate warcrests and rp.

Ahh ok, so you have no idea how mechanics and gameplay work outside of 6 man, you should have just said so.

Here is an example. Your uber 3 man wb killing premade runs into 2 unteamed toughness maguses. The maguses use toughness/absorbs/Aegis/regen to deal with dps dmg- back in the day I could have 2 mdps on my magus without guard or heals, and survive for long enough. The two maguses then burst down the dps of the 3 man, then the heal, and then the tank.

The 3 man premade then runs to devs crying "but we were teamed, its unfair they can win without guard and heals, its a team game, nerf plzzzzz". Followed by the current situation.

[githappens]

Ahh ok, so you have no idea how mechanics and gameplay work outside of 6 man, you should have just said so.

Here is an example. Your uber 3 man wb killing premade runs into 2 unteamed toughness maguses. The maguses use toughness/absorbs/Aegis/regen to deal with dps dmg- back in the day I could have 2 mdps on my magus without guard or heals, and survive for long enough. The two maguses then burst down the dps of the 3 man, then the heal, and then the tank.

The 3 man premade then runs to devs crying "but we were teamed, its unfair they can win without guard and heals, its a team game, nerf plzzzzz". Followed by the current situation.

You asume 3 or 6 mans just trade damage. One Magus is probably a) detaunted, b) staggered or silenced c) punted to the moon, or all combined together, while other is focused under debuffs. One mostly likely is challenged (if not both), if said 3 man gained any morale before fight, you may even eat Bellows. Keep in mind defensive morales on dps (SW/BW/Slayer) can ruin whole trading damage scheme (and yes I know you've undefendable stuff, but it limits your options), WL wouldn't even engage but pull one with pet.

Won't even comment idea of trading damage with guarded and healed target using detaunts, proper smallscale tank will stick to his dps even if that means afking.

Unless by premade you men 3 random plebs under group who don't even communitate and have no idea what they are doing.

[Zxul]

Ahh ok, so you have no idea how mechanics and gameplay work outside of 6 man, you should have just said so.

Here is an example. Your uber 3 man wb killing premade runs into 2 unteamed toughness maguses. The maguses use toughness/absorbs/Aegis/regen to deal with dps dmg- back in the day I could have 2 mdps on my magus without guard or heals, and survive for long enough. The two maguses then burst down the dps of the 3 man, then the heal, and then the tank.

The 3 man premade then runs to devs crying "but we were teamed, its unfair they can win without guard and heals, its a team game, nerf plzzzzz". Followed by the current situation.

You asume 3 or 6 mans just trade damage. One Magus is probably a) detaunted, b) staggered or silenced c) punted to the moon, or all combined together, while other is focused under debuffs. One mostly likely is challenged (if not both), if said 3 man gained any morale before fight, you may even eat Bellows. Keep in mind defensive morales on dps (SW/BW/Slayer) can ruin whole trading damage scheme (and yes I know you've undefendable stuff, but it limits your options), WL wouldn't even engage but pull one with pet.

Won't even comment idea of trading damage with guarded and healed target using detaunts, proper smallscale tank will stick to his dps even if that means afking.

Unless by premade you men 3 random plebs under group who don't even communitate and have no idea what they are doing.

Detaunted- likely, if its a premade. Still, you got 2 maguses. Staggered or silenced- stagger is at most 6 sec, silence is 3-4. Back in the day toughness magus could survive quite a bit more then that vs 1 dps+1 tank, so the burst is after its over. Punted- magus has 65 to 100 ft range on most abilities, so he burst just fine from where he got punted to. Focused under debuff- like I said, getting past 900+ toughness+ absorb tactic+ regen+ Aegis+ pots isn't that easy even today, despite toughness magus equip not being upgraded in 5 years or so. Challenged- magus dot rotation includes aoe dots, so Challenge is removed. Bellow is m3, so won't be up usually (unless indeed its not 2v3). Defensive morals is 10 sec at most, if you see it up as magus just detaunt the dps and wait a bit.

All which you listed existed back on live as well, don't assume abilities which were used 15 years ago is somehow new and unknown.

[Acidic]

Let’s try stay on topic, rewards affecting pop imbalance or not, I’m sure 6 man tactics are not directly on topic thread

[Gerggregsson]

A) remove the keep defense bag and keep take rvr, this is just like any BO and should have similar reward, small tick.

Bad idea.
Removing keep defense bag would hurt any incentive by NA Destro to defend keeps against overpopulated NA order completely.
Underdog would only have tagging empty BO's as a last resort, if defending keep gives no rewards, even less Destro will ever show up compared to now, skyrocketing the empty pvDoor dilemma and faction imbalance.

If Destro has aao, getting a keep defense bag plus those aao goodies should hopefully motivate xrealmers to come on over and join the fight.

90min realm lockout timer is a serious problem here that needs to be removed. It's already been proven repeatedly that its preventing xrealmer wbs from switching to Destro in extremely lop-sided fights.
It's a failed experiment that needs to be thrown away where it belongs, in the trash.

B) remove rewards from zone, including forts and LoTD where the aao average is too lobsided

Bad idea.
Players want something for invested efforts instead of nothing. This seems way too harsh for players on both sides to bother fighting for absolutely nothing.

C) reduce / remove rr from assisting if u or you group did not do at least 20% (arbitrary number) of damage to player

Bad idea.
How are healers healing or tanks guarding going to gain renown from this concept?
This would increase dps class pop but exacerbate tank/healer shortages.

Taking rewards away from the game isnt going to help population imbalance, it will help kill off more interest for rvr on both sides equally, causing more players to quit on both sides.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Detangler]

I like scenarios

[Paladini]

Honestly people should be more carefull with what you wishing for...

Heres an old example... community demanded change.
Requesting more gimp RR/rewards can go more wrongly as devs already did on past, gimped to ground the RR earns, making it more boring as it is now (at least for healers, destroyed oil RR etc).

The idea that require a person to do a minimum 20%+ damage to earn RR it will hurt again tank/healer rr gain (which is already bad).

People whined about healers on past, so we lost a big income of RR from free healing at orvr.
Years ago, even if you were a solo healer... you could go to orvr and still help throwin heals around and earn some RR (so people got heals, resses, I got rr, had fun to play abit while orda was overwhelming NA tz as usual per example), people whined so bad about this... that today its not even worth to spend some hours at night and do some free healing anymore (today I preffer to spend 2h playing with guild, theres no reward anymore for NA night playing), so people like me that enjoyed playing healer at NA tz just logoff.

While we saw lots Am/Shammy go for dps, because its fun? No idea (personally I don't enjoy it), or because its their way to earn RR now as solo... who knows.
And how can you blame em when a massive amount of people asked to nerf healers RR income? People demand stuff and changes without seeing the entire perspective and when devs implement it, blame em too because now there are so many AM/SHAMMY dps... community is never happy at all.

Each side will always complain about a thing, thats for sure...
Orda always cry because of meme GTDC...
Destro always cry because rampage/ID and Bw massive Aoe lag feast

Ah people will say im destro favored, guess you don't know me at all lol.
I started as main ORDA for years, switched to destro because I didn't accepted some weird stuff going on there.

Most of you people played both sides too, so you know that its not only ORDA who suffers, both sides does suffer at each tz.
If you got no idea what the ddos slayer/bw is... heres an example
Click here to watch on YouTube so don't think the other faction always has a greener pasture than you... just because you got pulled, theres is a certain reason why xrealm WBs run heavily on Slayers/bw, see da video.

Let's remember the current population isn't even closer as years ago too, maybe we are like 1/3 of past years pop or less.
Inciting devs to make more "nerfs" isn't the way to go, will just kill the game faster this way.
People play a game to have fun, not to keep getting nerfs over n over.

I see some xrealm wb leaders saying stuff like Orda get massacrated/slaughtered on prime time, so they have to blob or stay at keep.
Lets get real, the prime time mentioned was EU tz, which mostly lasts for only 2h at max.
While the other 22h we already know which side is massacrated and pvdored, if you wanna advocated for one side at least compare the full day tz, not only 2h from EU tz, to at least be fair.

The thing EU issue is... one side still kept great guilds around EU tz, while orda EU old guilds mostly left for other games (daoc etc).
While at NA tz, its totally opposite... orda still got guilds around while destro NA old guilds just vanished years ago, leaving only pugs mostly.

So if you wanna complain about skillplay while you go to xrealm at Orda, at least be the person that make a change for that faction, improve the players quality with good info, builds etc instead of "lets blob and win by numbers". Thats whats really missing there at EU tz, leaders (same goes for destro NA).

Sure its a long run process but this behavior just keep HURTING ORDA so BAD (because no one is teaching em how to daily improve or fight, just to be a meatshield for any organized xrealm wb at EU tz).

I have seen sadge stuff daily... even when Orda had "equal numbers" they avoided fights if no 2-3 xrealmers Wb were there to engage the fight.

Why?

Unfortunatly they "were taught" to "just be meatshield for the xrealm guilds", instead of learning to fight with their own legs/arms, so the only option available when those xrealm wbs are not there is boxing and bunkering at the keep untill the other side logoff and the situation invert.

Resuming, current ORDA seens happy to be the meatshield as long those xrealm wbs can beat the other side. Can you see the picture here? You (orda) not improving at all because you letting the xrealmers fight for you, while you act as spectator.

Both sides have pugbands and im pretty sure all pugband players mostly running fun builds (not optimized for group fights plus the pug mentality towards solo kill play vs group play / lack of focus etc) so the chance to beat an organized warband goes down drastically.

Btw I'm not criticizing any pugbang leader, the effort and work they do are good anyway and I appreciate it, trying to make pugs gather to play together isn't easy at all. If those guys didn't step up for creating pugbands... I'm pretty sure the situation could be worse for both sides been more disorganized.

So people always try to blame someone, right?
You can't blame a guild that love to play together and enforce their players to use group focused builds, their fun is kill, win, have good battles.
While pugs can't expect to succeed and to fight toe-to-toe vs organized wb, when you (pugs) chose to not even have optimized comp/build for it, not comms.

I speak for both tz situation (EU and NA, because I log both tz and see whats going on).
The same way I can't blame the pugs to have their fun running whatever build they believe is good for them, but you (pugs) have to pay the price for such lazy choice too.

We must remember that if we want to enforce a "certain gameplay style" for everyone... it will be a moment people start to quit quickly too.
Theres 2 styles to play... for each style a person has a choice, theres a pro/con and have to bite the bullet.

I know most of people here are mentioning RR decrease etc... but you are only seeking for shallow solution, again if this happens healers/tanks will get the most RR nerf punish again. The problem isn't really the reward at all (because its lower gains compared with years ago).

[tazdingo]

literally just return BO ticks and orvr will fix itself, i promise